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Transcript:

Caroline: We are recording today on the traditional, ancestral, and unceded territories of the Coast Salish and Kwakwaka’wakw peoples, including Tsleil-Waututh, Squamish, Musqueam, and K’ómoks first nations. Hello and welcome to Love to Sew! I’m Caroline, the owner of Blackbird Fabrics and BF Patterns.

Helen: And I’m Helen, the designer behind Helen’s Closet Patterns and Cedar Quilt Co.

Caroline: We’re two sewing buds who love to sew and it’s all we ever talk about.

Helen: Today we are interviewing Kenneth D. King, couture designer, technical sewing wizard, teacher, writer, and contributing editor to Threads Magazine. We chat with him about the couture techniques he developed himself, his storied career, and his latest book, Doll Couture.

Caroline: If you love to sew, this is your show.

Helen: Hello, Kenneth. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Kenneth: Well, thank you. It’s my pleasure. Good to see you.

Helen: Yes, we’re so excited to get the opportunity to chat with you. Can you please introduce yourself to our listeners?

Kenneth: Okay, for those who don’t know who I am: Kenneth D. King, “D” as in “Diva.” I like the D in there. I think it alliterates nicely. I have a following in the sewing world. I do a lot of different things, but I started sewing when I was four. I started sewing for Barbie, more on that later, and started making clothing for myself as a teenager. My degree is in fashion merchandising from a college in Oklahoma. So my first career was window display. Window display got me to San Francisco. And when I got to San Francisco and worked in window display, I had a boss who was certifiably crazy. And we had a chance to kill him and make it look like an accident. No, I’m not making that up. The only thing that kept me from killing him was: I believe in reincarnation. So I understood. I have to work for myself. So when I started making…my first paying customer was a mother of the bride, which cemented in my mind that I could make money doing this. Then I started making hats because accessories don’t have to…you don’t have to worry so much about fit. And I was able, then, to quit my job in March of ‘87. And I have been self-employed primarily as a couturier, but the purview of my business has expanded ever since then. So, 1987, you do the math, probably before you two were born.

Helen: Only just, only just. Wow, thank you for that quick overview of your career. It’s amazing to hear it like that. Like, then this happened, then this happened, and no big deal. Now I’m a couturier.

Kenneth: There are all of the stories because one of the things I do, I’m an adjunct professor at FIT here in New York. So, you know, I get the kids when they’re young. And one of the things I tell them is, you know, “It’s all really persistence.” Because I quit my job in March of ‘87. And again, you’re too young to remember this. The stock market crashed in October of ‘87. So by December of ‘87, I lost my apartment and I was sleeping on a broken-down sofa in my studio, which was like a big garage. And there came a point when I had to melt down my jewelry to fill an order. And I’m not kidding.

Helen: Oh my gosh.

Kenneth: But, you know, it was, you know, I tell my students, like, I said, you know, this really sucks when you’re going through it, but you can dine out on these stories for the rest of your life. So, I got through that, you know, I was living in my studio, listening to the mousetraps clacking like castanets at night for about six months. And then I was able to kind of turn everything around and, you know, then I was off and running. So I started with accessories. I started selling to a store in Los Angeles called Maxfield, late ‘86. That was when the big break happened. There was a gal named Mindy. And this is something I tell my students: If you’re going to be selling to retail, it’s not necessarily the owner of the store or the buyers that understand. It’s the head salesperson. So, the owner and the buyer didn’t quite get what I was doing, but they said, let’s go get Mindy. ‘Cause Mindy sold, like, five-to-one over everyone else. And she came and said, I can sell this. I see money. And so between 7:00 in the evening on the Thursday before Thanksgiving of ‘86, I remember distinctly, and 10:30 the next morning, they had sold everything that they had bought. Then they were on the phone saying, “Hey, does he have anything else laying around his studio?” So I was making hats and other accessories for three years and all my friends were kind of, you know, they didn’t quite know what to make of it like, you know, it’s like he has this weird hobby where he’s making hats. And they just thought, you know, poor thing, he’s so deluded. And I said, you know, “This is called inventory.” So when they called and said, “Do you have anything else in, you know, laying around your studio?” I’m like, “Why, yes, I do.” And I boxed everything up and shipped it out and I was launched. So you know, the short version is: the rest is history.

Helen: And also, thank you, Mindy.

Caroline: Yeah.

Kenneth: Yes, well, we still talk. And you know, and we were talking recently, as a matter of fact, ‘cause see Elton John was an early client, more on him later. But she has a theory that when he started palling around with Versace, if you look at the timeline, and I think she’s got on to something. Versace’s clothes in the mid-to-late 80s heading into the 90s were very clean and very streamlined and all of this. And then, all of a sudden, this whole Baroque thing showed up. And she has a theory that he saw my pieces from Elton and it caused him to go into a new direction.

Caroline: Oh my goodness.

Kenneth: So, you know, I mean, I think, you know, the timeline, it matches. So anyway, but yes, we love Mindy.

Caroline: So you mentioned Elton John, and we have to ask you to elaborate a little bit. Like, how did that connection happen? Can you just tell us a little bit more about that?

Kenneth: Well, it happened through the store in Los Angeles. And I remember I was taking a jewelry class at City College and my jewelry professor…his sister was a stylist in Los Angeles. So she became my agent. She was the one who got me into Maxfield. One night I was in class, jewelry class, it was a Wednesday night I remember, and he came out and he said, your agent’s on the phone, you know, cause she had called him trying to track me down. And apparently Elton had been in Maxfield and bought what they had and said he wanted to see four more vests by Tuesday. Could we do it? And, you know, it’s like, okay, that’s just one of those…like, you just have to motor through it. So I stayed up 72 hours at a stretch to get those into that store. So that’s where he started buying my things. I did the hats for his concert tour in 1988. Which I was very pleased about. The news on that was a little bit, kind of, nerve wracking because I was at my studio. It was a Saturday afternoon. I was working away and the phone rang and it was Brenda and she’s like, “Oh my God, Tommy’s breathing fire. The person who was pulling together his concert tour said she’s going to buy the hats directly from you. He’s furious. He’s talking to your answering machine at home. Call me when it’s over.” And she hung up, and I remember sitting at my desk, and it was like, “Okay, the good news, the bad news. The good news is: he’s considering using my hats for his concert tour. The bad news is: I had to tame a dragon.” And, you know, so the phone rang, I was able to kind of soothe his shattered nerves and, yeah, so I did the hats for his concert tour. You know, if you look at, there’s a Diet Coke commercial you may, if you go on YouTube: “Elton John Diet Coke Nightclub.” That’s one of my hats. There is a video for “You Gotta Love Someone,” that’s one of my hats. The video for “Sacrifice,” one of my hats. He has a lot. He has the good stuff. Because what he would do, I would get the phone call: four hats, two weeks, blank check. So, you know, my job was, okay, what did I do last time? How can I outdo it? So, of all the people who have my work, he has the best. He got all the best.

Helen: I mean, the right person to have them, I think.

Kenneth: Yes. Well, you know, interestingly, because, see, in August of ‘89, there was a concert in the Bay Area. And of course, this is still when we had rotary phones. So, you know, I was calling in for tickets and I, you know, at 10:05, you know, all the tickets were sold out except the ones in the parking lot. So I bought two of those because I figured, okay, that’s the best I could do. And so I had Brenda, I said, “Could you ask Maxfield to talk to his people? I just want a decent seat. I don’t want to sit in the parking lot.” And they, of course, said “Oh, no, we couldn’t possibly.” So a friend of mine just said “Oh, to hell with that.” So she found out who his people were and she sent a letter saying, “These are two creative people who enjoy each other’s work. Don’t you think it would be great if they were to meet?” And they said, “Excellent idea. We’ll have backstage passes at will call.” So I, of course I’d like to think I’m blasé, but I’m not, so I, of course I was wearing a new hat, and we got there and she was kind of guiding me through the maze in the back. And when we finally saw him, he was, like, wearing a t shirt, overalls, baseball cap, hanging out before he was going to get ready to sing. So, Betsy kind of pulled the two of us together. And the first thing he said was, “I’ve often wondered what you look like.” Now, how cool is that?

Helen: That’s so cool.

Kenneth: And then the second thing he said was, “I’m the one who owns the yellow jacket.” Now, Maxfield had ordered this taxicab yellow moiré dinner jacket. So, I, of course, not really trusting that Maxfield would know what taxicab yellow was, because they were this very minimal store, I sent a swatch. Saying, “Okay, are we all on the same page on this?” They said yes, that’s it. That’s the colour. And I thought, oh sweet Jesus, how am I gonna make this work? So I figured, okay, I can’t do the tasteful and understated. I have to just kind of go the other way. And I found and bought 70-some dollars worth of glass fruit and vegetables. And the embellishment on this jacket was these glass vegetables. And I laughed for three days making this thing because it was just, it was a riot. So, the second thing he said after he said, “I often wonder what you look like,” is, “I’m the one who owns the yellow jacket.” Because, see, Maxfield was very coy about, you know, where these things were going. So then, of course, here we were. They weren’t letting people sit backstage, so we still had these really crummy tickets in the parking lot. And I could have dropped dead right then, my life complete. I, you know, I wasn’t thinking any further than: I have met Elton John. So we’re walking out, Betsy’s on, I’m in the middle, she’s on my left, he’s on my right, and she leaned over and she said, “Elton, I know this is tacky, but we don’t have tickets.” And he snapped his fingers and he said, “Tickets for these people.” So one of his minions came running up with these fifth row center tickets. So he said, “Now I have, I have to go get ready. I have to go sing now.” So you know, here we were like, stepping through people, you know, to our seats. “Excuse me. Excuse me.” We were backstage. “Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me.” And so the hat that I was wearing which he tried on because he and I were at the same hat size, he then ordered four of them.

Helen: Oh my gosh.

Kenneth: So, yay! So I got them all done and I sent them off. And then the earthquake hit in ‘89. So the next day I got a phone call from his people. And I thought, oh my god, what happened? The hats didn’t get there. Were the hats damaged? Did he not, like, you know, I was, like, off on this whole thing waiting for the other shoe to drop on, he hates the hats, or something like that. And she said, “Well, how are you doing?” And I said, “Well, fine, thanks.” And you, and she, there was this little pause and she said, “There was an earthquake. He wanted us to call you, to see how you’re doing and if you need anything.” And I mean, that completely never occurred to me. And I’m like, “Well, thank you. That’s very lovely.” And so, then moving right along. I said, well, you know, you’re going to be getting an invitation because we had just rented a new studio space. I had signed the papers on that place, like, two hours before the earthquake hit. So, in December, first, like, first part of December, it was a couple of days before the party. I got this phone call from his people and they said, “You know, he really wanted to come, but he can’t.” And I said, “Okay, you know, thank you for calling.” I mean, like he’s going to come to my party, you know, he’s famous, I’m not. So that was fine. So the day of the party, my mother came in from Oklahoma, my mother who wanted me to be a pharmacist. While they were getting, my mother and my sister were getting ready at my place, I was at the studio kind of just, tying up loose ends and so forth. There was a message on the machine from a florist. So I called him back and he said, “We have a bouquet we need to deliver.” I said, “Okay.” So he said, “Well don’t you want to know who it’s from?” And I was just spoofing. I said, “Oh, it’s probably from Elton.” He said “Oh, damn.” I went and got my mom and my sister, so here they, you know, we got back and the doorbell rang and they brought this gigantic, it was like the horse came in second at the Kentucky Derby, gigantic, bouquet, you know. I’m like, I’m trying to be blasé, like, “Oh, set it over there,” you know, “Mom, read the card,” and it said, “Dear Kenny.” Now, Elton is the one person besides my sister who I allow to call me Kenny. “Dear Kenny, congratulations on your studio warming. Sorry I couldn’t be there. Thanks for everything. Love, Elton.” Well my mother…when everyone in the, you know, the party guests came, she was Queen Mother. And she was telling everyone, you know, “I always encourage my children to do, to follow their dreams.” And it was like, okay, I’ll overlook that you wanted me to be a pharmacist and you didn’t really understand what I was doing up until today. So he bought a lot. He has a lot of pieces. He has jewelry. He has hats. He has dinner jackets. He has vests. He has the first footstool. So he has, Mindy said she thinks it’s probably over a hundred pieces.

Helen: Wow. Amazing. Well, and he’s clearly such an admirer of your work and you’re saying how amazing it was for you to meet him, but he obviously wanted to meet you too. And that’s just the coolest. I can’t even imagine how that must have felt.

Kenneth: Well, what’s kind of sweet is, you know, come, you know, bringing forward to, to now, Mindy actually sent me a link because he’s moving out of his apartment in Atlanta. So there’s this whole auction at Sotheby’s and different things he’s auctioning off. And she said, “You’ve never seen any of your work being auctioned off.” And I said, “Okay.” And she said, “I think that’s because he likes it so much. He wants to keep it.”

Caroline: Aww.

Helen: Oh yes, of course.

Kenneth: So, yeah. So, you know, I can say, I can only say good about him because, you know, he, he didn’t have to be nice to me. He didn’t have to have his people call and say after the earthquake, “Are you okay? Do you need anything?” Because that never occurred to me that that would happen. So, yeah. I have nothing but good to say about him.

Helen: He wanted to make sure you were okay so you could keep making him cool hats.

Kenneth: And that’s okay because it’s a win-win, you know. I mean, he gets the cool hats, I, you know, get to make wonderful things because really, honestly, years ago, I delivered a piece to the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, Hermit Collection, and she was saying, “Okay, where is the good stuff? With your output?” I said, “Elton John has it.” If you, you know, if you’re, if you’re ever motivated to ask him for it, that’s where the good stuff is.

Helen: Take it up with him. Yeah.

Kenneth: Yeah.

Caroline: That’s just incredible. We wanted to talk about one of your most recent projects as well, which is a book that you came out with in December called Doll Couture. So can we get into it? Can you tell our listeners a little bit about this book just to kick it off?

Kenneth: Yes. Well, I have to start back a little bit. I’ve made Barbie clothes pretty much my whole life. That’s how I learned how to sew. In 2019, my husband’s niece in Australia, little Charlie, it was decided that she was old enough for Barbie clothes. Okay. So, you know, that was, I had time between the fall and the spring semester at FIT. So I was just sitting in my studio, you know, making this and making that and posting it on Instagram. All of a sudden I get this email from New York Magazine. The fashion director there said, “Hey, we really love what you’re doing. We’re doing an article on Barbie as influencer. Can you replicate these looks from the collections?” And she sent four photos. Two of them were ugly. Two of them were great. So I just decided I only want to do these two because they’re pretty, but the other ones are ugly. So I wrote back and I said, “Well, I only have time to do two and I want to do these two. And I want this big ton of money to do it.” Thinking, you know, they’re going to say no, and she said, “Yeah, can you have it by the 15th?” I’m like, okay, I guess I’m going to have it by the 15th. And so the doll that I was working with on Charlie’s clothes, it was one of my vintage Barbies called the Fashion Queen. This was a doll in the, like, 19-mid-60s that wore wigs. She had this molded head and there were different wigs so you could change her hair. So I had her out. I was making the clothes on her. So this project turned into, I called it, “the top secret project.” I started to put it on Instagram. And so as I said to the people, okay, Barbie figures are different now than they were then. So I need stand-in dolls so I can make the clothes to fit them. So they sent these two dolls. And so, when they arrived, part of the Instagram thing was, “Oh look, the fit model and the intern have arrived.” And it started this whole cast of characters. There’s the bodyguard, because my assistant was mobbed in Lincoln Center for her internet fame. Then he has an assistant named Gus. Gus carries a baby doll. We don’t know why, but he does. Then there is the fitter, because, and she, she makes sure everything fits properly. She always has her tape measure and her pin cushion at the ready. And Crazy Bella, who is the, she’s sort of the muse. Crazy Bella. This was just an unexpected…I was making more clothes for Charlie. And I had this body with no head on it. And in the photos, it was looking a little weird. So I found this head rolling around in my box of parts and popped the head on the body. And I heard the words “Crazy Bella.” And I thought, “Okay, this is Crazy Bella.” A friend of mine, she’s one of my Park Avenue gals, but she before she married well, she was in PR for, like, Vuitton and Cartier and all. She called me when Crazy Bella made her first appearance and said, “She’s going to be big.” That, you know, I’m like, okay, I’ll take, I’ll, so yeah, so fast forward, I’ve been making clothes during the pandemic in 2020. It was how I kept myself from going crazy because I don’t know how it was where you were, but in New York, no one went outside. We were all locked in for a month. So, I just decided, okay, I, you know, this is how I’m going to keep from going crazy, is making Barbie clothes. I started a story where Crazy Bella was going to bring back the old New York tradition of the tar beach, meaning you go up on your roof to get your sunbathing.

Helen: Okay.

Kenneth: And so, you know, while she was up there, she thought it was entirely private, so she took off her bathing suit. Well, unbeknownst to her, these bad guys with telephoto lenses were taking photos of her without her bathing suit. Then they started to try to blackmail her. And all my friends were calling me saying, “Are you okay?” I’m like, “This is how I’m coping with this.” And interestingly enough, that was the foundation for the book. So if you, ‘cause there’s @kennethdking is my Instagram. There’s @lolatheshowgirl24. So if you go to @lolatheshowgirl24 and scroll down to the first post and go forward from there, you can actually see the whole Crazy Bella blackmail story because it figures into this book. So in December of 2022, I was having tea with the CEO of Taunton Press. I was saying to her, you know, what would be really cool is to do a sewing book, but with, you know, with a story, like a Crazy Bella story, but with sewing. And she said, “Okay.” I thought, “‘Okay.’ Does that mean, ‘Okay. You’re crazy?’” And she said, “I’ll have my people call you.” That’s how this book started. So, you know, the character, the central character is Lola. She was a showgirl. And so, if you ever have heard the song “Copacabana,” at the end of the song, she’s not in a very good place. She’s drinking herself half-blind. I pick her up there. And so, Lola the Showgirl, she basically gets her life back together. She gets a new group of friends. But there are some plots and twists and turns. And so it’s a story. One of the things I had to make sure on the cover is, I think it’s called “Creating Custom Clothing for the Story of Lola” which is the subtitle for Doll Couture. So, yeah, that is each plot point in the story. Lola’s outfit is, there’s a pattern, there’s all the instructions on how to sew it, there’s a whole section on fitting, because the new dolls have different figures. So, you know, these clothes, I say, these clothes are based on an 11 ½” fashion doll with these measurements, but if you have a doll that has different measurements, this is how you can adjust these patterns so that they can work for those dolls. So, it’s kind of a long story, but that’s, that’s the book. And it launched December 6th. It went into its second printing before January 6th. So it’s exciting.

Caroline: It’s incredible, yeah.

Helen: It is so cool. I mean, it goes without saying: what a unique idea for a book! To pair the story with the sewing. And I love the concept and I’m sure people could learn a lot from the techniques in the book as well, because you walk them through how to actually sew the clothes. Do you recommend fabrics as well? Are you telling people to kind of go through their stash?

Kenneth: Yes, you know, I mean, it’s like a sewing book, you know, there’s a beginning section on: these are the materials and marking tools and such that you want for this, these are the little tiny pressing tools that you have to make, you know. I have, like, the little tiny seam roll and the little tiny pressing ham and the little tiny ironing board and all of this because you need them to scale because they’re, I mean, you can use a regular sized iron, but for pressing a lot of these different things, because pressing is next to godliness, you have to have specialized pressing tools. So there are patterns so you can make those as well as the garments.

Helen: Wow, that’s so cool. And did they sew them on the machine or is it hand sewing?

Kenneth: Primarily machine.

Helen: Okay.

Kenneth: There’s a little hand sewing here and there, and there’s a little section in there on the different hand stitches that you want to know when you’re making clothes like this. But yeah, it’s on the machine.

Caroline: Are there any other, like, major differences between sewing doll clothes and regular clothes? Like any special techniques that you talk about in the book?

Kenneth: Well, the order of construction is much different, especially a lined jacket. You know, in a human scale project, you make the jacket, you make the lining, you hand sew the lining in the jacket. I tend to hand sew, but in a one-sixth scale, it’s just completely different how it constructs. So, I go into how to make it so that you can have a fully lined jacket, and there’s only maybe about an inch and a half, two inches of hand sewing at the hem to close everything up for the final closure.

Helen: Very cool. It must feel like a bit of a full circle moment to have started off sewing doll clothes and now to have a book all about sewing doll clothes. How does that feel?

Kenneth: Well, it’s really wonderful. I don’t know if you’ve read the introduction yet, but I talk about, this was something that I got a lot of grief for when I was growing up because I played with Barbie clear up until junior high. There was a moment when I understood that I’d better hide them in the attic or I would come home and they would be missing. Because my mother really, you know, I mean, she was doing the best she could. She didn’t want her son to grow up to be a sissy. Well, that was going to happen anyway. But, you know, she, I understood I had to hide them away. so having someone shovel a nice amount of money at me and say, here, show us how you do this was wonderful. I remember when I was, when I turned in all of what I needed to turn into Judy, she’s, you know, I, so I was of course often running on, okay, how do we promote this knowledge? She said, Oh, let’s slow down a moment. She said, you know, as an editor, I look at books differently than other people. I look at the typeface, I look at the photos, I look at, you know, I look at the books differently. And she said, I really, I think that you’ve created a work of art here because not only have I done a book on sewing, the story itself has some messages. Like, it’s a very diverse cast of characters. Crazy Bella and Lola have had stalking in their life. I’m not going to go too much into that. But, she said there are some bigger messages here than just a sewing book. And I remember when I got off the phone, I was, you know, it was one of those moments where I was sort of, kind of, shaking and I didn’t know why. So I thought, “I need to go out for a walk.” So I went out for a walk and I remember looking around in Union Square and I remember thinking: that little kid who made Barbie clothes succeeded. You know, that was, you know, I was rewarded for something that I had been shamed for as a child, an adolescent. And that was pretty cool. That was almost worth, you know, I like having the advance. But, that was a big deal for me. And, you know, I got kind of emotional about it. Because I thought, you know, that was, that was a long time coming. But in the introduction, one of the messages I say to people is, you know what? Let them do it. If they’re not hurting anyone, if it’s giving them pleasure, just let them do whatever they like doing. If for no other reason, then it gives them joy.

Caroline: Mmhmm.

Kenneth: So, yeah, it was definitely a full circle kind of thing.

Helen: And I’m sure many of our listeners can relate to having doll clothes be their introduction to sewing. I know I used to have an aunt who would sew doll clothes and send them to me. So I can relate to being the Charlie in this situation and receiving those beautiful handmade doll clothes. It’s so special. So I do encourage our listeners to go and check out your book, Doll Couture. And before we move on, we’re going to take a short break.

Caroline: Love to Sew is made possible by listeners like YOU! We are so grateful for the support of our amazing patrons and subscribers. If you love Love to Sew and you want to help support the pod, we have a new option for you.

Helen: You can now become a paid subscriber on Apple Podcasts! Subscribers get access to our monthly bonus episodes. It’s so convenient; if you already use Apple Podcasts, the episodes are right there in your feed!

Caroline: So, what are the bonus episodes? Well, we do a chatty catch-up on what’s been happening in our lives, share about the realities of running a small business, discuss new indie pattern releases, and talk about what we’re sewing right now! Many of our subscribers say these fun bonus episodes are their favourite, and if you subscribe, you get access to the full back catalogue. That’s over 75 hours of Love to Sew! We also do a mini-episode that deep dives into a specific topic. We get to discuss so many fun sewing techniques and answer specific subscriber questions about sewing!

Helen: And we are still on Patreon! If you subscribe over there you can get access to the bonus episodes, behind-the-scenes photos, and a special 15% off discount code at our superfan patron tier. That discount applies at Helen’s Closet, Cedar Quilt Co., Blackbird Fabrics, and BF patterns. If you shop with us regularly, it basically pays for itself!
Head to patreon.com/lovetosew to see all perks and options.

Caroline: If you’d like to try out Patreon or Apple podcast subscriptions and check out our bonus content, you can sign up for a free 7-day trial. And, of course, you can help support the show by listening, just like you are right now. You can also leave a review! Reviews really help our show to get discovered by new listeners. We know that financial support isn’t always possible and we want you to know that we love you for listening!

Helen: Go to patreon.com/lovetosew or visit our show’s page in the apple podcast app to become a paid subscriber. Thank you to all of our listeners, patrons and subscribers – you’re the best! And we’re back. Okay, Kenneth, we’d like to circle back to the work that you do as a couturier. Can you first tell us what “haute couture” means to you?

Kenneth: Well, “haute couture” is, there are people out there, and I’ve run into them, that they have this definition that and these are arguments I hear on chat lines, and I think, okay, you should be sewing rather than arguing about this. But there are the people who say that haute couture is something that is entirely sewn by hand with a needle and thread. You can’t use a machine, you can’t use modern technology, whatever. And then there are those who say, well, yeah, you can, and I’m in that particular group. I believe that couture evolves as technique evolves, and technique evolves as couture evolves. So, some years ago, at the Met, they had a show, Manus x Machina, and it was hand and machine. So, there was this wedding gown, Karl Lagerfeld did this wedding gown and the train on this thing, seriously ladies, it was, you could land a 747 on it. It was that long. And it was done with hand embroidery, it was done with heat set rhinestones, it was done with computer generated imagery, it was done with heat, you know, bonding fabrics together with heat. The dress itself was made out of scuba. And there were invisible zippers. Now, there are some people who say that you can’t have a couture garment with an invisible zipper. Well, if Karl Lagerfeld can do it…do it. And his message was: it’s all fair game for couture. So, recently, Iris Van Herpen, I saw this thing on Instagram just, I think just this morning. They talk about how she really is someone who is marrying couture techniques and technology: fiber technology, fabric technology, and so forth. So I think it’s more of an idea that you take whatever time and effort and money to get a particular vision. But the rest of it, I think, is just details. So that’s how I would define it.

Helen: And your garments certainly do have so many delicious, gorgeous details. So can you describe your aesthetic for our listeners?

Kenneth: Oh gosh. Well, I’m not a minimalist. I think minimalism is a bore. What really inspired me when, because I moved from Oklahoma, God help me, to California, to San Francisco. When I was a young pup in San Francisco, I ushered at the Opera House, which if, you know, I tell my students, if you can get a gig like that, that is a gig you want. Because I got to see opera once a week. I was on the Saturday series; I got to see whatever came through that opera house. So I got a taste of spectacle and drama and the grand gesture. Also the Opera House itself, and the entire Civic Center in San Francisco, was built in what’s called the Beaux Arts style of architecture. It was very popular during the Gilded Age. There was this idea of splendour in everyday life. And, like, if you’ve ever been to City Hall in San Francisco, you walk into this magnificent rotunda and just the texture and the pattern and the pattern on pattern and the details are just magnificent to look at. The Victorian houses, you know, there’s all of this riotous detail on these houses. That all really kind of soaked in. So, I really, I like something that’s visually rich. Now there are a couple different “bodies of work,” I guess I would call them. My first, in business till about 1995, was what I call “the embellishment.” And so a lot of the, most of the Elton pieces, are that. So it was a particular thing where I used the embellishment and I would always plan architecturally on the garment, a place for the embellishment to reside. Because years and years ago, I hope I’m not stepping on any toes here, but there is wearable art and then there is couture. Now, I had a very smart man say to me, don’t get mixed up with the wearable art thing because wearable art, as he defined it, was art to embarrass yourself in, or, I’m wearing someone’s art project. It’s where the garment itself is the star. But in couture, and this is where I hew, the person wearing the garment is the star. And so, in that situation, first off, they have to be the first thing you see. Secondly, as far as embellishment there, I’ve seen some people who do embellishment and they just kind of smack it somewhere on the garment. But what I learned observing architecture is that there was an architectural detail that held the embellishment there. It wasn’t just like kind of smacked onto a wall. There was like, you know, pediments that held up columns or whatever. So that is, kind of, that’s really where my style came from. So there came a point when I realized I had said what I wanted to at the embellishment, so I withdrew from the marketplace for, I’d say, about three years and I started experimenting with what I call the “lines of inquiry.” And there are three of them. There’s the soufflé, there’s the cutwork, and there’s the leafing. And this was spawned by, I studied pattern making in San Francisco from a woman named Simone. Simone trained at the École Guerre Lavigne in Paris. She trained as a première for a couture house. She moved to the United States. She got her immigration based on her education. They said it was like a master’s degree. So she had a little school and I studied with her. It was a tremendous education. It made so much possible. But one of the things that really stuck with me: she would regard, she would call seams “scars,” and she would dramatically say, “You don’t want a scar on your face. You should not have a scar on your garment.”

Helen: Oh my goodness!

Kenneth: No, seriously! And so for me, the, with these three lines of inquiry, they all went back to, okay, how do I make something that either has no seams or it has no apparent seams? And so the soufflé is based on lattice smocking. I don’t know if you, your grandma probably, had the round pillow that looked like basket weave on the edges and had the button in the center.

Helen: Mmhmm. I mean, those are back in style now, Kenneth.

Kenneth: Yes, everything, yes, everything old is new again. Yes. And my grandma, when I think about this, it never occurred to me at the time, but I’d like to go back and ask her, but she’s in heaven now. “Grandma, where did you get gold lamé in Salina, Kansas?” She probably had to call Kansas City to order that. But she had those in gold lamé, and I loved those pillows. I thought they were great, and I always wanted to sleep on them when we went to visit. So, the soufflé is taking that as a base, and generating garments from that. The leafing is, you basically cut out the little tiny leaves, and assemble them into a three dimensional garment with no seams. And then the cutwork is, it’s kind of the mirror image of the leafing, where you cut openings out of a piece of fabric. And in that case, what I end up doing is pivoting the seams so that they are design lines. So they, it doesn’t read like a dart or an armhole or, you know, a princess line. The seam actually looks like an aesthetic call. So that’s kind of where I go now. And people ask me, “Really, what is it?” And for me, the whole thing is, it’s all about technique. You know, if you know your technique, you can do what you need to do. And so each one of these have their own stylistic unity because of the different techniques that I’m choosing to execute them with.

Helen: And do you ever mix them together or do you tend to do one or the other?

Kenneth: Oh no, they, they overlap. Especially, there’s one cocoon coat that comes to mind. This is, I made this for a customer, where the leafing is between the layers of the organza. I don’t necessarily mix the construction of the soufflé with the other two because it’s its own thing and there’s a lot of volume to it. So that, and people kind of clutch their pearls when I say, “Well, this is all polyester.” But honestly, if you have something that has, it’s kind of puffy. If you sit on it, if it were silk, it would smash like a bug. You would never, ever be able to fluff it back out. But working with man-made fibers, just hit it with a little steam. It pops right back out. And I make clothing for modern women. I shared studio space with a painter for 17 years in San Francisco. And she wasn’t a dainty, girly girl. She was a modern woman. So what I would do if I was coming up with something is I would give, I would hand it to her and I would just say, “Okay, interact with this. What do you do with it?” And, you know, and there were things I learned, like where to place a pocket in an evening wrap, where not to. What’s going to be problematic, what’s not. One of the things that she said early on is, if you’re going to have ruffles that hit the face, you’re going to have makeup all over it. And so, that’s why I like polyester, because you can take it into the ladies room, you can stick it under the faucet. And the hand, the hand dryer, and you’re good.

Helen: This is very true. It’s good testing for you.

Kenneth: Yes.

Helen: Well, I think some of our listeners out there would be really interested in learning some more about soufflé and leafing and cutwork. Do you have any resources where they can learn about those?

Kenneth: Now, they can read about it on my website, but, see, and this is one thing. I had a very dear friend who is an intellectual property attorney. And I was talking about patenting or whatever, and he said, “No, you know, a patent is a ticket to court.” He said, “What you just need to do is document the hell out of it and keep it to yourself.” So I have it all. I have all my samples and archives. And so, part of it is, I don’t really draw that much. My drawing skills are really painfully ugly. So I make a lot of samples. I do a lot of different tests and that sort of thing. And then I make lots and lots of notes so that if I decide not to use it right away, I can go back and pick up the thread and figure out what I’ve done and not have to reinvent the wheel. But you know, there are plenty of things that I, I’m happy to teach, but not this, not yet.

Helen: Well, that’s fair. We can see some beautiful examples of this work on your website. And I’m thinking to myself, listening to you talk, are you solo in your studio? Do you work with other people?

Kenneth: Yeah.

Helen: No, you do all the sewing yourself?

Kenneth: I’m solo, yeah. Because see, I’m the best I know! I mean, that’s not, you know, that I learned early on. I, when I was in San Francisco, I’d of course had a gigantic studio in San Francisco. I had an assistant. So she did things like keep my desk tidy and make piping and sew repetitive bead patterns. And, you know, she was, and she looked like, Betty Draper in Mad Men. Her name is Shelly. So that’s really helpful to have is like a really, really pretty assistant. Cause you know, whenever I would have things pleated, I would always send Shelly to go pick it up. ‘Cause it was always at least 30% less, because: Shelly. But I learned early that if I want it done the way I want it done, I have to do it myself. And also, you know, I, yeah, ‘cause if you have a business, you know, if you’re managing people, you spend more time managing people than sewing. So I’m a, I’m a sole operator.

Caroline: That’s so true. I’m also wondering, because you mentioned earlier talking about your sort of career as a couturier, that you had three phases. So we talked about the first phase. We talked about the lines of inquiry. What is the third era?

Kenneth: The third phase is this is, I mean, this is kind of what I’m working on now. You know, now that the book is out. And this is something I tell my students at FIT, and it really is true. I say to them, “If you know your craft, you will always have work.” Sometimes it’s the fox fur hat for the Chihuahua. It’s not on my resume. Um, and then there is, uh, Fortuny has kind of come back to life. I’ve been kind of doing this on-again-off-again project designing handbags for them because they want to do handbags that are kind of, like, high end, kind of like an Hermès sort of thing. And so this is, this is something we’re kind of, you know, it’s like, it goes a little ways and then it stops and then it goes a little ways and it stops and I got an email from him saying, you know, I’d like to kind of talk further about that some more. So, you know, I’m happy to do that because, you know: Fortuny. The other thing I’m working on, I can’t talk too much about it because it is for the government, but: spy clothes. I know that sounds crazy, but when I got the first Zoom meeting, it was, I had to go to class afterwards, and the Zoom meeting was like 10 minutes. These two guys, and they were being very cagey about what they were asking me about, and I didn’t, you know, and I got to school. I said, “Okay, kids, I don’t quite know what happened here. It’s a little unclear, but if it’s what it sounds like, I think I’m gonna be making spy clothes.”

Caroline: Incredible. Oh my god.

Kenneth: And, that’s, that’s it. Yes. That’s, I am. ‘Cause see, it’s, I can’t tell too much about it, but see, they have all these engineers working on it, but they don’t want it to look like a hazmat suit. So they want a designer to actually make it look like something that someone would want to wear, because it’s supposed to pass unnoticed in a crowd. And so I’m like, and what’s kind of fascinating is, the guy at the very tippy-tippy top of this project, his mother reads Threads Magazine.

Helen: Oh gosh. Amazing.

Kenneth: You know, I mean, you know, it’s, it’s interesting how all these different things tie together because, you know, I say to my students, I say, you know, right now, this phase of my career, the central pivot is that I know my craft, I do my craft, I investigate sewing things, I write about sewing things, I make videos on sewing things, I sew things, I teach sewing. You know, I mean, there are all of these different, yeah, spokes on the wheel, but it all comes back to: I know my craft. And so, and I’ve said to students, I have made, and I’ve done this, I can get. You know, if you have a situation because you have a spectrum on, you know, for, okay, what kind of, how you’re going to approach a product, it’s like, how much time do you have? How much money are they going to spend? And how long does it have to last? So something that you have an hour to get onto a runway is going to be constructed differently than something that’s going to live in a museum after 30 years of useful life. And so I have done enough different kinds of things. And this kind of goes back to my window display days, because in window display, you don’t have to have a deep knowledge of a bunch of things, but you have to have a broad base of knowledge where you can kind of dip your toe in and figure it out and do what you need to do. So that seems to be the third phase is the, you know, I’m looking at all of these different parts and pieces of my business. So it’s not just couture anymore. I just finished a, I don’t know if you saw on Instagram, a caftan for this customer. And it was, Oh, it’s this beaded fabric. It weighed about 10,000 pounds, but you know, and, and it was like just a caftan, you know, and then, and then she, I wanted to wring her little neck. God, you know, she told me what she wanted. She had the caftan here, here take, get the pattern from this. And, and so, you know, I got it done. And then we went and tried it on and she’s like, “I really would like the fab-” Because it was lined with the silk. I’d like the silk kind of trimmed off so that it, you know, the sleeves kind of look like a…” Okay, that’s easy to do. Fine. So then, when I got it back to the studio, her sister, who is my landlady, and there’s certain things you do for your landlady because, well: landlady, and she said. she feels that the fabric, cause she brought the fabric. The silk was too stiff and she wants something that’s not so stiff and she’d like for you to go find something that matches that and basically remake the dress. And I said, “No.” That was a heavy lift getting that whole, you know, ‘cause wrangling 70 pounds worth of beaded fabric. I just said, “No. no.”

Helen: Yeah.

Kenneth: No, this is, this is, you know, she gave me the fabric, she got what she, she got what she asked for.

Caroline: Yeah.

Kenneth: If you want me to do it again, it’s a new charge. We’re starting with a new dress. So I don’t do that many pieces for private clients anymore because I have all the other things I’m working on.

Helen: It sounds very exciting, especially the spy clothes. And when you were talking about needing something that blends in, all I could picture was the yellow rain jacket with the, with the vegetables.

Kenneth: Yeah. Well, you know, this, it’s got to blend in. It’s got to not look like, you know, it’s spy clothes.

Helen: Yeah, that’ll be a really fun challenge.

Kenneth: You know, I was telling my students, I had a student, I teach with Susan Khalje, and we had a sit-and-sew, and I had a gal there, and, you know, it was obvious that she knew how to sew really well. So we were talking, I said, “So, what kind of things do you make?” And she said, “I work for the CIA.” I said, “Tell me more.” She said, “That’s all I can tell you.”

Helen: I’m going to start saying that.

Kenneth: It’s, well, yeah, it’s secret. You know, I said, “How did you get that job?” And she said, “Well, it was a weird ad. You know, it’s like, they said, “We need someone who knows how to sew who can pass a security clearance.” And that, and so she said, “I can’t tell you what I make. I could just tell you that I sew for the CIA.” And I tell my students, it’s like, kids, you know. Like, how, how unusual and unexpected is that? So this spy clothes thing is kind of that sort of thing. you know, I say to them, if you know your craft, you’ll always have work.

Helen: Amazing. You never know what opportunities are going to present themselves to you.

Kenneth: Yes.

Caroline: I wonder what advice you would give to listeners, because a lot of our listeners are home sewers. If any listeners want to start working more couture techniques into their sewing practice, do you have any advice for them?

Kenneth: What I would say is, there’s some information out on YouTube. I’m very selective about, there’s a very narrow bandwidth of people who I actually, I think are okay. Susan Khalje. Take any classes from Susan Khalje Take any classes from Lynda Maynard. Take any classes from me if you want. Because there’s so much information out there and sometimes the information is like, well, just because you can do it that way doesn’t mean you should. I would say, you know, save up and go to a Susan Khalje, she has these things called sit-and-sew where, you know, you bring a project and, and some of the projects have been really fun. First off, what I would say is, the phrase “home sewer,” I, I bristle at that a little bit because there are some people, I run into them at FIT, who say, “Oh, he’s a home sewer.” Like really? And a lot of these people who would say, “Well, I’m just a home sewer,” really can sew circles around some of my colleagues. So what I would say is: don’t look upon that as a bad thing. The thing is, understand that if you really want to up your skills, one of the things to accept first off, is get the best fabric you can. And don’t be afraid to ruin it.

Caroline: Mmhmm.

Kenneth: I know, I know that sounds crazy, but I’ve ruined enough good fabric that I can, I speak from experience. And you know, the thing is: practice. This is all practice. I have students who say, “Wow, yeah. You sew,” ‘cause see, I sew fairly quickly. Part of it was my training with Simone. I mean, the sheer volume of things I had to get through to make, you know, my samples to get through that class. I got really fast, but it’s, you know, it’s, I’ve been sewing, let’s see, I was, I’m 66 now. So like, 62 years I’ve been sewing. Understand it’s going to take some time. And so don’t be afraid of taking that time. Because ultimately, it’s going to get you somewhere. That’s the best I can do as far as advice.

Caroline: Yeah, that’s true. Taking your time is something that we can all do, I think, on the day to day.

Helen: Do a little more of, yeah.

Kenneth: And also just understand, there are, see this is something that a lot of people don’t really understand, is in the couture, there’s what’s called the tailoring ateliers, and there are the dressmaking ateliers. And so, people have a different hand. Some people have, see, I’m a tailoring hand. I have a hand for tailoring. I’m pretty damn good at tailoring. I can make a chiffon dress. I will charge a freaking fortune for it because I don’t want to. It’s a nosebleed. My friend Lynda Maynard can sew a chiffon like it’s cotton muslin. Doesn’t understand what I’m complaining about. I remember, I did this; again, for my landlady. I had this, it was a four-ply silk crepe dress that she wanted. And I needed some moral support, you know, and so I texted her and she called me and she said, “Kenneth just do it! Just man up and do it!” Like, okay, I’ve been told. I’ll man up and do it. So yeah, understand that you may have an affinity for tailoring or you may have an affinity for dressmaking. So those, those are variables. And, you know, I will say my tailoring is much better than my dressmaking.

Caroline: Yeah, no, it’s true. Knowing yourself, kind of knowing your strengths is important too, and you’re, when you’re developing your sewing journey and kind of figuring out what to focus on. I want to circle back for a second because I know you live in New York and you’ve mentioned fabric a few times and I bet our listeners would love to know if you have a go-to fabric store in New York.

Kenneth: Oh, you know, the default, everyone thinks, is Mood Fabrics. I go there if I have to, but that whole section, tt’s like, between 6th and 9th Avenue and 39th through 35th, I think. You know, a lot of times if you just kind of walk up and down and go in those jobbers, then you’re going to find what you want. You know, if there are times that I just need something, like one example, I needed a half yard of black cotton sateen. Period. I need it in a hurry. I would go to B&J. B&J is, San Francisco people would understand the Britex reference. B&J is like Britex in San Francisco. It’s a very nice store. You’re going to pay some money, but, you know, for me, that was, that’s convenience. I know that if I go there, I want that particular thing, I’ll get it. I’ll spend some money, but I need it. If I need it, I need it. There’s a place in the Lower East Side called Mendel Goldberg. They have, I mean, it’s kind of a fascinating business. The New York Times did an article about them. And I think she’s the fifth generation, you know, the business started in a pushcart on the Lower East Side. I mean, it’s the typical immigrant success story. She has the really extravagant, extravagantly expensive, but definitely-worth-every-penny kinds of things. Like, if you’re looking for a Linton tweed for a Chanel jacket, that’s the place I’d send you. If you’re looking for fabulous linings for that jacket, that’s the place I would send you. She has some amazing wools. She gets all the stuff from the couture. I don’t know how she does it, but she does. So if you’re looking for those kinds of fabrics, that’s where you would go. But other than that, really, you know, if you’re coming to New York, it doesn’t hurt to make a trip to Mood. Because it’s, I mean, it’s quite a lot of fabric. But it’s not my go-to place.

Helen: Fair enough. It can be overwhelming as well with all of the selection that they have, multiple floors. But, I mean, fabric shopping is always so much fun. I also really like B&J. It’s just a delight to shop there. It’s so nice and bright and, I don’t know, organized.

Kenneth: Yes. And they really do have, you know, anything you’d really need.

Helen: Yeah, some absolutely gorgeous fabrics. Well, Kenneth, I have a bit of an odd question for you, or an out-of-left-field question perhaps, but while we were preparing for this episode, I noticed that you share a lot about perseverance and, you know, not playing it safe. You seem to have this really positive attitude and a strong drive to live life to its fullest. And I know you impart that to your students as well. So can you speak on that for our listeners?

Kenneth: Well, perseverance…we’ll take the two separately. Perseverance, you know, I had so many people when I started out say, you know, “This art stuff is all well and good, but you gotta make something for the common people.” Well, first off, I didn’t know what the common people wanted because I’m not a common person. I’ve stuck with this since the 80s. And all of those people who gave up, I’m still doing it. A lot of times you have to wait for people to catch up with you. And this was really what was happening when I was making the hats. I had this sense. Because someone asked me, who is your customer? Like, if I were a woman with lots of money, I’d be the customer. I made what I wanted to wear, really. And so the thing was, you know, if you just keep going, if you keep putting one foot in front of the other and keep doing it, eventually they’re going to see it your way. And when Mindy saw these pieces at Maxfield, she was telling me, she said that it was, like, exactly what the market needed right then. And no one else had filled that particular niche. And it was one of those things that, I just had this feeling that, if I just keep going, eventually everyone’s going to catch up with me. So, yeah, you know, I just stuck with it because also, you know, I mean, it’s what I do. This is what I’m good at. Yeah, so I just keep going. But as far as, like, the positive attitude and so forth, you know, it’s, you have to kind of, sometimes you have to buck yourself up. You know, I have those times when I’m like, “Oh god,” you know, “What did I do?” Oh, you know, “Wahh!” Like, well, one example: moving to New York. I, you know, I decided I wanted to move to New York in 2000. And it took me until 2004 to figure it out. And there were people like, “Ah, you know, you’re not going to do it. You’re just talking about it. I’ve laid money on the fact that you’re never going to go to New York.” I’m like, “I haven’t gone…yet.” And, you know, there are times that you have to wait for the window of opportunity. And, and people then, because I was 46 when I moved to New York, people said, “Oh, you’re being so brave. You’re all of this.” It’s like, even when I moved to San Francisco, people were like, “Oh, aren’t you scared? You’re being so brave.” Like, well, actually, apprehensive about moving, but I understood that it’s not about bravery. I understood that it was necessary. And so a lot of times I just look at what I have to do is, okay, this particular thing is necessary to get to where I’m going. So I don’t know if I’m answering your question, but it’s necessary. Another, a side thing, and this is something that I say to people: perfectionism is a disease. Because people who can’t make a move until everything is perfect never make a move. And, like, when I found this place here, it was one of these situations where it landed in my email box. That’s the short version, but, and they, people said, “You’re not going to take the first thing you looked at.” I’m like, “Yes, I am.” It landed in my email box. And if there’re not rats running along the baseboards when I go see it, I’m going to rent it. And you know, because it was like, it isn’t perfect, but it’s close enough.

Helen: Mmhmm.

Kenneth: And, you know, I could have sat in San Francisco and folded my arms and said, “Harumph, it’s not perfect. I’m going to wait until the perfect thing comes.” And then I’d still be in San Francisco. So, you know, sometimes you just have to take that action. And when I moved here, because I drove the moving van across the country with my dog. When I got here, a friend of mine was here kind of to help watch the truck while they were unloading everything. And we went to dinner afterwards and she said, “Fortune favours the brave.” And so, yeah, fortune favours the brave. I think fortune also favours the persistent.

Helen: Yes, and it does sound like in so many situations throughout your life you’ve gone with your gut instinct and believed in yourself and that’s really paid off for you. And it’s so lovely to hear your story and I’m sure a lot of our listeners are going to feel very encouraged by your words.

Kenneth: Good.

Caroline: Yeah.

Kenneth: Okay, what else do you need to know?

Caroline: Oh, well, it’s been so inspiring hearing all your stories and I think we have to wrap up now because we’ve been going for a little while, but we can’t wait to see what’s up next for you. Can you share any new projects that you have on the horizon? Is there another doll book coming?

Kenneth: Well, you know, if people buy this one, ‘cause see, my husband, who contributed fashion sketches for the book, by the way, said the next book has to be on Crazy Bella. Because Crazy Bella’s timeline, because on @lolatheshowgirl24, there comes the point where that story, the Bella blackmail story merges with the Lola story. So I needed, I wanted the backstory to be there. But Lola has kind of a, she has a varied and sort of chronologically unusual life. She worked for the Red Cross during World War II. She was a showgirl for the Folies Bergère. She sang at the Café de Paris. She has, she is unknownst to a lot of people and I haven’t shown the spy car yet. ‘Cause I have a, she has a spy car with a rocket launcher. She is a covert agent for the MI5 in the UK. And she has all these different, like, things. And so my husband said, the next book has to be on Crazy Bella. That would be a gas. I would love to do it.

Helen: I would love to see that happen. So all of our listeners need to go buy your book right now.

Caroline: Buy this book!

Kenneth: And one thing, I’m just, this is a little announcement, this is something new that you all get to, to break, is one of the things I asked for when we were doing the editorial is, like, a bonus track. You know, ‘cause there’s always, you know, like with albums and such, there’s always the, you know, that track that didn’t get on, you know, didn’t get into the album. And there are photos that didn’t really get into the book. And, you know, also just because it’s a book and all, some of the photos were not as large as I would like. So what I have for anyone who gets one of my books and, you know, all you have to do is email me and say, “I bought your book” or “I got your book as a gift,” and I will send you the link to the excerpt from the story of Lola. So you get a really good look at those photos. You can print them out if you want. And, you know, it’s just the story without the sewing. So it’s like the Lola story excerpted. So it’s kind of like a companion piece. So if you don’t really want to sort through all of the sewing to keep track of the story, you can just read the story. So that I’m making available in about two weeks.

Helen: Oh, very cool. Okay. We’ll definitely link that up in our show notes for our listeners. Kenneth, where can our listeners follow you online? If they want to see what you’re up to.

Kenneth: Well, let’s see. My website is kennethdking.com. “D” as in “diva”. Instagram is @kennethdking, and @lolatheshowgirl24. Facebook is Kenneth D. King Design. So those are the three that, those are the three main places where you get to see what I’m doing.

Caroline: Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being with us here today, Kenneth. It was such a pleasure getting to know you and chatting with you.

Kenneth: Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

Caroline: Awesome. Thanks. That’s it for today’s episode of Love to Sew. You can find me, Caroline, at Blackbird Fabrics and BF Patterns, and Helen at Helen’s Closet Patterns and Cedar Quilt Co. We’re recording today in beautiful British Columbia, Canada.

Helen: You can support Love to Sew and get access to bonus content by subscribing on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. You even get access to the back catalogue of bonus episodes. That’s over 75 hours of Love to Sew. Go to patreon.com/lovetosew or check out our podcast page on Apple Podcasts for more info.

Caroline: You can head to lovetosewpodcast.com to find our show notes. They’re filled with links and pictures from this episode. And if you’d like to get in touch with us, leave us a message at 1-844-SEW-WHAT. That’s 1-844-739-9428. Or you can send us an email or a voice memo at hello@lovetosewpodcast.com.

Helen: Thanks to our amazing podcast team. Lisa Ruiz is our creative assistant, Jordan Moore of the Pod Cabin is our editor. And thank you for listening. We’ll talk to you next week.

Caroline: Bye!

Helen: Buh-bye!

 

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