We dive into fancy weaves – those fabrics that are made with special looms, special tools, special yarn twists, or otherwise unusual processes! We cover satins, jacquards, velvets, dobby weaves, and more, describing what they’re like, how they’re made, and how to sew with them. We also give advice to a listener who’s starting her own business.
The transcript for this episode is on this page at the end of the show notes.
Previous Episodes Mentioned:
A Couple of Helen and Caroline’s Fancy Weave Fabric Makes:
Resources:
- “Tips for Sewing with Satin” by Julia Garza at Craftsy
- “Brocade and Jacquard – What’s the Difference? (Or, the History of the Jacquard Loom, and All the Weaves It Can Create)” by Leimomi Oakes at the Dreamstress
- “Controlling Frayed Fabric That Unravels as You Sew” by Debbie Colgrove at The Spruce Crafts
- “A Beginner’s Guide to Sewing Velvet” by Haley Glenn at Seamwork
- “How to Sew Velvet Like a Pro” by Nicole Smith at Threads Magazine
- “Velvet” Digital Exhibition at Textile Research Center Leiden
- “Velvet Weaving Time Lapse” by Maeve O’Shea on YouTube (this is hand weaving, but you can see how the pile is built with rods and then cut!)
- “Sewing with Corduroy” at Threads Magazine
- “Clip Spot” at Vintage Fashion Guild’s Fabric Resource
- “Everything You Need to Know about Crepe Fabric” by Stephanie Triplett at Mood Online School of Sewing
- “Learn About Crêpe: A Guide to the Different Types of Crêpe” at MasterClass
- “Dobby Loom” at Wikipedia
- “Dobby Weaves” at Encyclopedia Britannica
- “Pique” at The Fabric of our Lives
Fabrics:
Tools:
Patterns:
Transcript:
Helen: We are recording today on the traditional, ancestral, and unceded territories of the Coast Salish and Kwakwaka’wakw peoples, including Tsleil-Waututh, Squamish, Musqueam, and K’ómoks first nations.
Hello, and welcome to Love to Sew. I’m Helen, the designer behind Helen’s Closet Patterns.
Caroline: And I’m Caroline, the owner of Blackbird Fabrics.
Helen: We’re two sewing buds who love to sew our own clothes and want to encourage you on your sewing journey, too.
Caroline: Join us for today’s topic: Fancy Weaves.
Hi, Helen.
Helen: Hi, Caroline.
Caroline: How are you?
Helen: I’m good. How are you?
Caroline: I’m feeling fancy.
Helen: Right? I feel like I should have some fancy tea or fancy cocktail or something. I wasn’t thinking.
Caroline: I’m actually recording right now in sweats, so I’m, like, the opposite of fancy.
Helen: You’re not wearing your jacquard and velvet today?
Caroline: No. I should have. Why am I not wearing my satin dress?
Helen: Right?
Caroline: Oh, my gosh.
Helen: Maybe Jordan can put some, uh, violin music in the background of our intro.
Caroline: Oh, yes. Okay. I like that. Let’s get in the mood.
Helen: Yeah, get in the fancy mood. But, I mean, that’s part of the reason why we wanted to do this episode is that the holidays are coming up and now’s the time when a lot of people do sew these kinds of fabrics, so we’re gonna do a deep dive today.
Caroline: Yeah, I can’t wait. I love our fabric episodes. I love finding new topics to get into as they relate to fabric, so it’s gonna be a good one just in time for the holiday season. But I think we need to kick it off with a question.
Helen: Yes, hit me.
Caroline: Okay. Today we’re answering a question from listener Madeleine. She writes, “I wanted to let you know how much I love and appreciate your podcast. Your episodes have helped me so much to improve my sewing skills and given me the confidence to try (and succeed) at projects that always seemed way too advanced for me. I’m 17 years old and in my last year of high school, and sewing is really what keeps me going! It’s my therapy, the reason I never have any free time or money, the cause of my worst nightmares and my proudest moments.
“Recently, I’ve been looking into starting my own RTW and custom swimwear business that will be open for the spring/summer before I go to university. I always knew it would be a lot of work to start a business, but now that I’ve begun testing the waters with an Instagram account (crazily enough for a Gen Z teen, my first one!), I already feel completely out of my depth! I’m so scared I won’t find anybody to buy my suits, and I am so lost in the world of Instagram stories, reels, and posts.
“Do you have any tips for me as I start my (really) small business? Do you have any pointers on how to make my Instagram page look professional and cute without taking up too much of my time? Do you have any ideas on how to reach customers in my area who will be interested in what I have to offer? As both of you have started your own (amazing) businesses, I would so much appreciate any advice that you can give me.”
Helen: Ooh, I love a business question. Let me put my glasses on.
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: Alright, Madeleine. First of all, congrats on starting a business. I love that you came in really confident with the, like, I’m starting a business, and it’s launching in the summer, so…
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: …I need to get this together. So amazing, especially at your age to start a business, and it is totally normal to feel overwhelmed by all the things that you feel you need to do. I think social media is especially challenging ‘cause there’s so many people and other businesses to compare yourself to. The biggest piece of advice I have is simply this. Don’t compare your beginning to somebody else’s middle. And I know that’s so corny, but it’s also so true.
You are just starting out. Other people have been at this for a long time, so believe me, you will be amazed by how far you’ve come in just a year from now. And there are no shortcuts because everything you do is gonna lead you to the next thing. And all of that skill building is so important. I wish there was a button that you could press to be, like, now I’ll have a hundred thousand followers and my feed will look perfect, and, like, everything will be easy and that does not exist.
Even I, like, still struggle with comparison with social. My business isn’t that big compared to huge businesses, right?
Caroline: Mhm.
Helen: There’s always going to be that element of like, what’s next? What could I be doing better? So it’s really important to not let that get you down.
And another tip I have is when you’re small, you can really engage with the people who follow you because those people are going to become your super fans, and they’re gonna champion your business and they’re gonna be there for, like, the whole way through, and those relationships are so important.
Not only that, but when you do get bigger and have lots of followers, you won’t be able to keep up with everyone anymore. You’re not necessarily gonna have time to dedicate to fostering those friendships and relationships on social media, so enjoy this time where you can forge those relationships and build those strong ties with your customers and network with people ‘cause I think it’s a special time.
And as for making an Instagram page professional, I think starting a business specific account, put up a logo if you have one, link your shop or Etsy site if you have one, and be clear about what you’re selling in the bio, and start building up a couple of story highlights so people can learn a bit more about you and what you’re offering, like, maybe an “About Us” highlight and, like, a “Behind-the-Scenes” highlight, and then you can put stories in there as you post them.
Your photography and video skills will definitely improve over time, so really just try not to worry about everything looking perfect, looking just the way you want it. You just have to put yourself out there and start putting content up.
The most important thing is don’t shy away from selling what you’re selling. You want people to come to your page and know what it is you offer and what you’re all about. So just try to communicate that as much as possible.
Caroline: Yeah, it’s so true. And I have to add that, like, from what I have been observing of social media, it is moving in the direction where people don’t wanna see, like, a polished feed. They want that real, raw behind-the-scenes look. They wanna get to know who they’re following, so don’t be afraid to just, like, put things out there that you might not feel are perfect because you, you don’t need to strive for perfection.
Helen: No.
Caroline: You just have to put yourself out there and connect with your customers.
Helen: Oh, yeah. And the bar is always changing, too.
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: You can plan as much as you want about how to have the perfect social media profile, whatever that looks like, by the time you get it, it’s gonna be different.
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: So there’s really no point in striving to meet that bar ‘cause it’s always gonna be different, and it’s so hard to produce all the types of content that social media wants from us – photos, videos, stories, lives. It’s exhausting sometimes. And so it’s important to only take on as much of that stuff as you can while you’re still working on the business – the products.
And most importantly, taking care of yourself and your mental health. Try not to get too sucked into making content for social all the time because not only will it not be great for your mental health, it can be a huge time sink, and it doesn’t always pay off. It’s really easy to think, oh, if I’ll make more content for social media, I’ll sell more products. Not necessarily. You really need to look at your numbers and figure out what is actually paying off. Maybe you need to find more customers, like you were talking about in more direct ways than social media.
And try to make content as quickly as you can without too much effort. Like, for you, that could mean photos of your products, behind-the-scenes videos of your sewing or designing, or sneak peaks of upcoming suits or fabrics that you’re gonna be using, and customer testimonials and images, with permission, of course, from those people can be really powerful and an easy one for you to put up on your social media, so play around with different types of media and try to have fun with it while not putting in a ton of effort.
Caroline: Yeah, it’s so true. There’s no magic formula, and every business is so unique as it should be, so you’ll have to try different things and see what sticks and see what works for you in your own business and your own life.
Helen: Yeah, exactly. And as for finding customers, I mean, it’s really hard to answer ‘cause I, I don’t know that much about the custom swimwear industry, but I think when you’re small, like, partnering with other businesses can be a really great way to help spread the word about your brand and make some friends, some business buddies, especially, could be really cool.
I mean, look at Caroline and I, like, partnering on this podcast with our businesses has really helped us to help market our products and continue to grow our businesses and bounce off of each other. So starting something like that when you’re small with another small business can be really advantageous, so keep your eye out for anything like that that could be a good match for you.
And, of course, we hope this all helps. It’s a lot of information, and hopefully, it’s valuable to other folks out there, too. Best of luck with your business, and thank you so much for listening to the show.
Caroline: Yeah, thank you. Okay. It’s time to get fancy, and I think first up we need to explain the title of this episode. So, Helen, what is a fancy weave?
Helen: Well, in our Fabrics 101 episode, we reviewed a few of the main types of fabric weaves, like plain weaves and twill weave. Fancy weave fabrics differ from these. Sometimes, they’re made with special looms or special tools, or the yarns are twisted differently, or they have a pile.
Caroline: Yeah. Fancy weaves are more complicated to produce, and therefore, their prices are usually higher. The most common place you’ll see fancy weave fabrics is in formal wear. They make the most special outfits for the most special days. I’m thinking a lot about fancy weaves lately ‘cause I’ve been thinking about my wedding dress. I’m getting married next year, and I wanna make my dress. And yeah, I’ve just been thinking a lot about what type of fabric I want to use, and a lot of my options fall under this category.
Helen: Yeah, it’s so exciting when you do get to use a fancy weave, and I think as more casual sewists, like Caroline and I, we don’t encounter them that often. We love them, and we love seeing them and touching them, but when it comes to actually sewing with them, it is a special treat because it doesn’t happen every day. So in this episode, we’re not gonna cover every possible fancy weave. There’s just too many specific ones out there, but we picked the ones that you are most likely to come across in fabric shops and in the fashion world.
Caroline: And we’re gonna describe each fancy weave and tell you a bit about how it’s made. And for the ones that are tricky to sew, we’ll give some sewing tips. And if the fabric’s easy to sew though, we won’t give as many. Cotton swiss dot for example, just isn’t as hard to sew as silk brocade.
Helen: Yeah, exactly. So let’s go through each of the fancy weaves and give you a bit of a crash course. Our first fancy weave is satin. Satin has that smooth shiny surface and a matte back. It’s a classic for formal wear because it’s so beautiful, and it’s made by floating yarns over the surface of the fabric.
Caroline: Yeah, there’s nothing quite like the feeling of touching and wearing satin and how it drapes and how shiny and smooth and soft it can be. So in terms of weave, for example, in a four harness satin weave, the weft yarn goes over three warp threads and under one. In an eight harness satin weave, the weft goes over seven warp threads and under one. The higher the harness number, the longer the floats are. And the longer the floats are, the more flexible and shiny the fabric is gonna be.
Helen: Satin is made with long-filament fibres, like silk, polyester, or nylon. Satine, on the other hand, is made with short-staple fibres, like cotton or rayon. Satine has a lustre and a smoothness, but it can’t reach the same shine and drape of satin, so that’s, kind of, the difference there. They’re both beautiful, though.
Caroline: And you still get that shininess in a satine. It’s just not quite as much as a satin.
And satin can also come in an array of weights, from thick duchess satin to super lightweight charmeuse.
So we wanna give you guys some tips for sewing with satin. The first one is when choosing a pattern, think about the drape of your satin. If you’ve chosen a charmeuse, or charmeuse in French, you’ll want to look for something not super structured. A floaty skirt or sleeve will show it off. And for very fitted garments, like a fitted bodice, consider underlining your pieces to add strength and keep the seams from pulling.
On the other hand, duchess satin is a lot less drapey. It would be great for a structured bodice and a sweeping skirt. It’s a classic choice for wedding gowns.
Helen: Ooh, satin fabrics love the bias. A bias cut slip dress or skirt is dreamy in satin. Plus, it cuts down on the fraying problems that satin has when you cut it on the bias.
Caroline: Yeah, and you wanna cut satin in a single layer. Use a lot of super sharp pins or weights to hold it in place as you cut. Satin can be really shifty, so cutting it on a double layer, it just makes for, I don’t know, potential disasters because your bottom layer might be a little bit shifted, off grain, and you just wanna make sure you have full control. That’s why we suggest cutting on a single layer.
Helen: Yeah, and these are fancy fabrics, so it’s time to get fancy with fancy cutting. You can get out your fancy tools, you can take your fancy time. You know, enjoy yourself.
Caroline: Yeah, take that fancy time. Yeah.
Helen: Another thing to note is that satin is delicate. So you always want to use a press cloth and a low heat on your iron. And a microtex needle and pins can help prevent any snags. Pin within the seam allowance if you find that your pins leave holes in your fabric. Certain types of satin, you might notice that they’re actually leaving a mark.
Caroline: Mhm. And the shine of satin shows every lump and bump. And what would look like a smooth seam on a matte fabric can look like a puckered mess on satin, so you wanna be using a short stitch length and hold the fabric taut as it feeds into your machine. You can test out your tension settings on scraps until your seam looks smooth.
For your first satin project, consider a satin print. It’s gonna camouflage things more than a solid, and you’ll get used to it. I’ve sewn with satin before, and it can be a little pucky at first, but you’ll learn how to handle your fabric and just be gentle with it.
Helen: Yeah. And with yourself.
Caroline: And with yourself. Yeah.
Helen: Consider hand basting your seams, especially curves. Satin is a slippery devil, so starching the fabric can help, but we want to advise you to check on a scrap first to make sure that it doesn’t change the look of the fabric permanently.
And a rolled or a baby hem will work best on satin ‘cause you don’t necessarily want to have that big, chunky line of stitches across the bottom of your garment.
Caroline: Yeah. Have you sewn with a lot of satin in your sewing journey?
Helen: I have not. I feel like you’re gonna be our resident expert ‘cause you just made two satin garments in the last, like, two months.
Caroline: I did a bias cut satin dress and, like, um, kind of, billowy puffy sleeve dress, as well, both for weddings that I attended, and I really enjoyed sewing with them. I, I used rayon, or viscose satins, so I don’t know how that behaves differently from, like, a silk satin. I have a feeling silk would’ve been a little bit more difficult to work with, but they were, I don’t know, I, I love using fancy fabrics. You can, kind of, take your time, and it feels really special and…
Helen: Yeah.
Caroline: I love the way satin feels to wear, so it’s, kind of, worth all of the headache.
Helen: Oh, it is so dreamy. It has that lovely cool hand.
Caroline: Yes!
Helen: It’s like wearing a breeze.
Caroline: I know. It’s like wearing nothing. It’s so nice to not, I don’t know, personally, I don’t love a super structured bodice. I like things to feel flowy and sort of skim my body, and satin totally fits the bill, especially something like a charmeuse or a drapey satin.
Helen: Yeah, it’s cool that there are so many different kinds of satin, and that’s also one thing that can be maybe confusing about satin is that you may encounter it in the store and be like, this is nothing like the last satin that I…
Caroline: Mhm.
Helen: …touched. So, like, what’s going on here? There are so many different kinds of satin, different weights, so that explains why you’re encountering different things out there. And you do wanna choose the right satin for your project.
Caroline: Mhm.
Helen: Not all satins are created equal.
Caroline: Oh, yeah. And oh, I have one extra tip that I just thought of. If you’re someone who has dry hands, Make sure you moisturise before you work with satin because any little, like, dry skin crack can actually, like, kind of, attach itself to the floating yarns in the satin and yeah, create pulls. So it’s really easy to do that with a, with a delicate fabric. So I’ve seen folks even wear gloves, like, plastic surgical gloves when working with delicate fabrics like this if your hands are really dry. It’s just something to keep in mind.
Helen: Oh, my gosh. I love it. What about when you’re out in the world in the garment though? There’s so many snags only, snagable things.
Caroline: I actually think that’d be kinda cute. Like, some beautiful satin gloves to go with your satin dress.
Helen: Yeah. Matching satin gloves. Perfect.
Caroline: Okay, let’s move on to. Second fancy weave, which is jacquard. Jacquard is a group that includes damask, brocade, and tapestry. Nowadays, these fabrics are almost always made on a jacquard loom.
Helen: Okay, so in 1801, Joseph Marie Jacquard introduced a new loom, which made weaving complicated and beautiful patterns much, much easier. It used cards with holes punched in them as a program for the design. The holes allowed the correct colours of thread to pass through and prevented the other colours from being woven into that row. And fun fact: the jacquard loom is considered an important milestone on the road to modern computing.
Caroline: I love that! And before the jacquard loom, brocade fabrics were woven by hand on a draw loom. This required a master weaver who understood the loom and the pattern diagrams, plus a draw boy who would assist. With the jacquard loom, a single worker could make patterned fabrics, and they didn’t even need to understand how to make the design. The punch cards took care of all of that.
Helen: So cool. You know there’s a jacquard loom in Vancouver at The Maker Studio, I think it’s called…
Caroline: Ooh.
Helen: …something like that. Yeah, they have one there, and they demo’d it during some open house thing, and it was the coolest thing. It’s amazing.
Caroline: I gotta get some deets on where that is. I wanna check that out.
Helen: I’ll look it up. I’ll look it up. We’ll put it in…
Caroline: Very cool.
Helen: …the show notes.
Okay, so because damask, brocade, and tapestry are all made on the jacquard loom, these names now refer more to the style than the method of weaving. Damasks are pattern fabrics that have one style of weave as the ground and then another style of weave for the pattern. So the pattern is usually satine or twill weaves so that the patterned areas reflect the light, and then the ground is usually plain, twill, or satin weave, so there’s a contrast between those two.
And damasks can be made with a single colour where the design stands out just because of the sheen of the patterned area, or they can also be multicoloured. They are reversible, and damasks are usually seen in formal wear. They make gorgeous and classic vests when worn with a masculine suit, and they make amazing show stopping suit jackets as well. I’ve also seen them made into pretty dresses and formal jackets. I love that subtlety when it’s a single colour, and it’s just the difference of the texture. So beautiful.
Caroline: And brocades are fabrics with elaborate embossed or embroidered patterns; they’re not reversible. There are two main types: continuous brocades, which have the long weft thread of the pattern floating on the back, and discontinuous brocades, where the pattern threads are only woven into the patterned part and not floated; they have a smoother back. Brocades make amazing formal wear. They’re not usually very drapey, so they’re best for garments that don’t need a lot of drape, like jackets fitted bodices, and straight skirts.
Helen: And tapestry fabrics are made to look like historical tapestries, usually an elaborate multicolour weave that reverses in colour on the back. Tapestry fabrics sometimes look like they’re finally ribbed, but they do not stretch. These fabrics are pretty stiff and can be heavy in weight. For garments, they make great jackets, pants, vests, hats, and bags. Definitely a quirky artsy look, typically, when you go with a tapestry weave. I have some fun curtains that I picked up at Value Village awhile back, and they are a tapestry weave floral that’s got some gold woven into it.
Caroline: Ooh.
Helen: And I have not made anything out of it because I can’t choose which side to use.
Caroline: Oh, cool.
Helen: Which side should be facing out? It’s so hard to decide with these ones because they’re often just as beautiful on the back as they are on the front.
Caroline: Oh, that sounds awesome. I can’t wait to see what you make with it someday.
Okay. Matelassé is distinctive because of its texture. It looks quilted. It can be simple or elaborate and design, but. All matelassé fabrics have that bubbly raised texture that reminds you of a quilt, without any padding. You can use matelassé anywhere where you would use quilted fabric, especially in jackets.
Helen: Have you encountered this fabric very much, Caroline?
Caroline: I think that I have but not, I don’t hear this term thrown around very often.
Helen: No.
Caroline: So I’m, I’m pretty sure it’s, like, distilled down to just being called a jacquard. But when I hear it described, I do think that I’ve come across this type of fabric before, just not under this name perhaps.
Helen: It sounds so fancy. I mean…
Caroline: It is such a beautiful…
Helen: …nitty gritty. Yeah, it’s a jacquard, but specifically, it’s a matelassé.
Caroline: Yeah, I’m gonna start saying that. Yeah.
Helen: So technically, you can refer to any of those fabrics as jacquards, but sometimes those fabrics are also listed simply as jacquard. So this label is usually used on damask-style fabrics, but we’ve seen it used for tapestry-style fabrics as well. Uh, I think it’s just more recognizable, so it often gets slapped on the label.
Caroline: Yeah, agreed. And if your fabric is slippery, it’s a good idea to cut in one layer. Again, either use a rotary cutter so that your fabric won’t shift around or mark out your pattern pieces and cut along the lines with scissors.
Helen: And all of these jacquard fabrics have huge fraying issues, especially if they’re made with smooth shiny threads. You may want to increase your seam allowance to prevent more fraying within your seams. Um, you can also finish the edges of your cutout pieces with zigzag or seger. Either finish them in advance or, just to make working with them easier, for lightweight damasks and brocades, French seams can be a good choice here. Definitely don’t cut out projects out of jacquard and then leave them sitting for a while because you wanna take care of all those edges as soon as you can so that those frayed bits don’t start to unravel.
Carolien: Yeah, for sure. You don’t wanna be throwing that bag of a cutout project around in your sewing room from box to box. Tapestry and matelassé can be really thick, so to reduce bulk grade your seams. If you want to get a seam started, slide some cardboard under the back of your machine’s foot to level it out. And good seam finishes include Hong Kong seams or flat felt seams. These are gonna keep the seam allowances flat and make your garment easier to wear.
Helen: Okay. Our next fancy weave is velvet.
Caroline: Oh, velvet. I love velvet.
Helen: Oh, my gosh. I can tell. Blackbird always stocks the velvet this time of year, and I’m here for it. Velvet fabrics have that distinctive cut pile of smooth threads. A pile is a raised surface or nap in a fabric. It’s made of threads or loops that stand up from the fabric backing.
And velvet has a ground weave of tabby, twill, or satin. Sometimes these are made from a different fibre than the pile. So, for example, many silk velvets have a silk pile and a rayon ground weave.
There are two warps in velvet: the ground warp and then the pile warp. So during weaving, the pile ends are pulled up and a rod is inserted to hold them in place while the ground is being woven.
And then the thicker the rod, the higher the pile. So the pile is initially made up of lots of little loops, which are then trimmed down, so you get that perfectly smooth surface.
Caroline: Mm, I’d love to watch a video of this. I bet you it would be really relaxing.
Helen: That’s true. Think about how many, like, we’re talking about, like, the warps go in and then there’s a rod, but, like, we’re talking about, like, a minuscule, tiny, tiny little rod.
Caroline: Mhm. Yeah.
Helen: Not like a curtain rod. Like, like, a…
Caroline: No.
Helen: …a…
Caroline: Like a…
Helen: …not even like a…
Caroline: …a teeny, tiny…
Helen: …like a, like a chicken skewer.
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: A souvlaki skewer. Not even like that. Like a…
Caroline: No. Smaller than that.
Helen: Smaller than that.
Caroline: I love the comparison to souvlaki.
Helen: I don’t know why I went to chicken.
Caroline: Not like a souvlaki skewer. Not a sewing machine needle or, like…
Helen: Yeah.
Caroline: …a chopstick or…
Helen: No. It’s dinner time. I’m hungry.
Caroline: I know.
Helen: I’m hungry.
25:32 Caroline: Okay. There are a few variations on velvet. So first up, there’s figured velvet, also called voided velvet. It has a raised velvet design on a non-velvet woven ground. It’s made on a jacquard loom. Such a versatile loom! This kind of velvet is rare to see in garment fabrics, but it’s everywhere in home decor fabrics.
Helen: And figured velvet is not quite the same as burnout velvet, which is seen in a lot of garment fabrics. Burnout velvet is made by using acid to actually burn away the pile, leaving only the ground fabric. Sometimes the ground fabric is sheer, which can make a really pretty effect. Blackbird Fabrics has some of these in stock, these burnout prints. They’re so cool. And burnout velvet makes amazing formal dresses and really cool, like, layering pieces, robes and things like that that you can wear over jeans and a tee or a tank to dress them up. Super fun for the holidays and comfy, too.
Caroline: Oh, yeah. I have one of our burnout velvets in my stash, and it’s one of those fabrics that I can’t seem to cut into because I love it so much, and I’m afraid that whatever I make is not gonna do it justice.
Helen: Not so, not so.
Caroline: I need a pep talk. No, I’m kidding. I just love burnout velvet. It’s so pretty. Okay. Next up is panné velvet, also called crushed velvet. It’s either a regular velvet that’s been crushed into a design under high pressure, or it’s a velour with a short pile that goes in a lot of different directions. We have some crushed velvet at Blackbird, too, right now, and it is very cool, and that texture just adds a little extra mph to the velvet…
Helen: Yeah.
Caroline: …um, that works really well for, like, holiday dresses and tops and all sorts of things.
Helen: Yeah, exactly. It’s, it catches the light in this just super captivating way. It’s above and beyond velvet.
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: But it’s cool to know that it actually gets crushed.
Caroline: Yeah. Under high pressure.
Helen: Yeah.
Caroline: Yeah. Poor velvet.
Helen: That’s really cool. Well, um, speaking of velour. Velour is a type of velvet with a knitted ground. It’s stretchy and usually used for performance wear or sweatsuits. If a fabric is listed as stretch velvet, it’s either knitted velour or woven velvet with stretch threads woven into it.
Caroline: Mm. So interesting. I think of velour as those, like, Juicy Couture…
Helen: Yes!
Caroline: …sweatpants that we all, I mean, I shouldn’t speak for everyone, but that we all wore in the early aughts.
Helen: Yes! If you weren’t wearing pants that said cute on the butt, you weren’t living, you know.
Caroline: Yeah. And velveteen is a kind of velvet where extra weft threads are used to create the pile instead of a second warp. Typically, velveteen is less flexible and drapey than regular velvet.
Helen: Okay, next up we have some velvet sewing tips. First of all, be careful when you’re choosing your pattern. Drapey velvets go well with simple, semi-fitted, or loosely fitted patterns without a lot of shaping. Keep in mind that you can’t do much pressing on velvets or you’re gonna crush the pile, so that’s why you wanna seek out patterns with minimal darts, button holes, top stitching, and curved seams and instead look for gathers, pleats. More structured, less drapey velvets are great for fitted bodices, vests, or tailored jackets, but if you have one of those nice drapey velvets, think about, like, a shift dress or casual over jacket, something that is gonna be pretty straightforward to sew.
Caroline: Mhm. And you wanna cut in a single layer, and pay attention to the nap direction. So this means that you probably won’t be able to use your pattern layout because you’re gonna be choosing the direction you like best, and you’re gonna cut all of your pattern pieces facing in that same direction.
So if you go with the nap pointing down, as in you run your hand over the nap from top to bottom, and it feels smooth, velvet is gonna have more of a muted colour, and the velvet is usually cut with the nap pointing down because it mats less and wears better.
And with the nap pointing up, meaning that when you run your hand over the nap, it feels rough, the colour ends up being more saturated. You can see a good example of this in the Seamwork article “A Beginner’s Guide to Sewing Velvet” and check out our show notes on our website for this and other links from this episode.
I have to say, Helen, when Laura and I are buying Velvet for Blackbird, we always have to pick our colours and then switch spots and look at them from a different direction, and often, they will look completely different.
Helen: Yeah, I bet.
Caroline: We have to make sure we’re looking at any fabric that has nap, velvet or corduroy, from different directions and figure out which way the nap is facing and if we like the colour best, you know, when the nap is facing down ‘cause that’s usually how people will wear it.
Helen: Yeah. I was gonna say, I like sewing it with the nap down because I like to run my hands down my body and for it to feel smooth
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: You know?
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: But if you like it the other way, power to you. There is no right or wrong in this case.
Caroline: Yeah. I think the, the only most important thing is to just pick a direction and stick with it…
Helen: Yes.
Caroline: …because as I’m sure we’ve mentioned on this show before, if you cut your pieces in different directions, they’re gonna look like different colours, and it’s gonna bug you forever.
Helen: Yeah.
Caroline: Or maybe it won’t, and then good for you.
Helen: Yeah. Congratulations. No. One note about not being able to use the cutting directions, this may also mean that you need more fabric. So have a look at the cutting directions before you buy fabric and just see, are all the pieces facing in the same direction, or is it possible that when I turn this piece around, I’m gonna end up needing more? And some patterns will tell you, like, you’re gonna need more if there’s a nap, so watch out.
A layer of tissue paper under your velvet will help you to move the fabric without shifting the grain. Some velvets can be really shifty, so make sure the pile is facing up when you cut. And if you have that tissue paper to put under there, that might save you.
Caroline: Yeah, you also wanna avoid fusible interfacing with velvet and go for sew-in interfacing instead. Obviously, ‘cause if you’re fusing that interfacing, you’re crushing the velvet with your iron, so you wanna use something that you don’t have to iron on. Silk organza is a classic choice for this if you’re looking for sew-in interfacing. But a tightly woven cotton could work really well, too.
Helen: Yeah. And in some cases you may even be able to skip the interfacing. Often, velvets have, like, a pretty stable hand. That ground weave tends to be quite stable. So I mean, I don’t necessarily know your project and what you’re doing, but in some cases, I think it’s probably okay to skip it, so consider that as an option as well.
Caroline: Yeah, it’ll depend a lot on the fabric itself I think…
Helen: Of course.
Caroline: …but if it feels stable, you can totally venture to skip that facing.
Helen: Venture to skip it. I’m always down to skip some interfacing.
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: Let’s be real.
Caroline: Let’s be real. Me, too. Yeah.
Helen: Pressing velvet is another tricky one. Because of that pile, you don’t wanna crush it. There are two strategies you can use. You can use a lot of steam and do some light finger pressing. And you can press lightly on a thick terry cloth towel or a fancy needle board, also sometimes called a velvaboard. This is a nice tool that you can get for your sewing room if you’re looking to upgrade and get some fanciness injected.
Caroline: Mhm. And avoid invisible zippers. The pile can get caught in the teeth. If you want a fancy finish, go for a handpicked zipper instead. I love a handpicked zipper.
Helen: Yeah. This is a good time to bust that out.
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: And test out your stitches. You may need a lower tension setting or a slightly longer stitch length because of that pile. You can reduce your presser foot pressure so it doesn’t crush the pile too firmly and cause marks as it goes through the machine. And stitch in the direction of the pile to avoid disturbing the nap too much.
Caroline: And Seamwork recommends hand basting to avoid the creeping that can happen when the right sides of the fabric shift against each other. You can also try using a walking foot, but test first to make sure it doesn’t leave marks. Threads recommends using a light layer of spray adhesive along the seam line and finger pressing your pieces together instead of pinning and basting. Make sure to cover your surface with something disposable or washable to protect it from the adhesive. I’m terrified of using adhesive spray for this reason.
Helen: Yes! It getting everywhere.
Caroline: With my luck, everything in my life is going to be sticky for weeks.
Helen: It’s also the idea of spray adhesive and velvet is especially disturbing to me…
Caroline: Yeah, yeah.
Helen: …but I totally understand what they’re saying. It’s like, it’s almost like Velcro or like two magnets together.
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: Like, they, they don’t wanna stick together ‘cause…
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: …like, they’re opposing each other and, like, it’s like Velcro in that you need to, like, get them to, kind of, interlock.
Caroline: Mhm.
Helen: So I think the finger pressing is really interesting. I could see that being very beneficial. You’re, like, forcing the fibres together. They, kind of, grab hold…
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: …and you might not even have to pin in that case.
Caroline: Yeah, it’s very cool.
Helen: And you can avoid top stitching with velvet as much as possible. Reduce bulk where you can. So this is gonna mean no French seams or double fold hems. Instead, you wanna pink your seams or finish them with a zigzag or serger stitch. For hems, finish the edge and hand stitch a single fold hem. Just explore other options here. Velvet doesn’t necessarily fray a ton. But what it does do is it sheds.
Caroline: Mhm.
Helen: So you are gonna have fibres everywhere from the little naps being cut off when you trim. But beyond that, it doesn’t tend to fray a ton, so you can get away with some different seam finishes here.
Caroline: Yeah. I feel like velvet is really one of those places to, like, slow down your sewing practice.
Helen: Yes.
Caroline: Take your time. Do some hand sewing, do some experimentation, and yeah, just take your time.
Helen: It’s gonna pay off.
Caroline: It will totally pay off.
Okay. Corduroy is like a cousin of velvet. Corduroy’s pile is made from weft yarns, so it’s made like velveteen. However, its pile is woven and cut in a striped pattern rather than all over. Those stripes are called wales. Corduroy can have wide or fine wales, which affect the weight and thickness of the fabric.
Helen: And corduroy isn’t especially difficult to work with. Because it has lots of stripes and texture already, you probably wanna choose a pattern with pretty simple lines ‘cause details can get lost. But, I mean, that being said, I just made a pair of jeans out of corduroy, and they turned out great. You know, there are those vertical lines going in lots of different directions in certain places…
Caroline: Mhm.
Helen: …but it doesn’t necessarily look bad. It adds a lot of really nice texture to the garment, so that’s pretty cool. And if your corduroy is off-grain, you can fix it by pinning the salvages and the cut edges square and then steaming and smoothing the fabric to get the diagonal wrinkles out. Like with velvet, you’re gonna want to press on a fluffy terry cloth towel or a needle board, or just avoid pressing all together and use that steam and your fingers along those seam lines.
Caroline: Mhm. And since corduroy is a napped fabric, make sure you’re cutting all your pieces out in the same direction. Consider cutting small pieces like collars, cuffs, and pockets on the cross grain or on the bias for interest. And for wide wale corduroy, you can match the wales across seams as if they were stripes. Fun.
Helen: I am, I’ve never tried to match wales before…
Caroline: Me either.
Helen: …but that’s an interesting idea. I feel like I have, like, a less than quarter inch rule. If, if the stripe is below a quarter inch, I’m not matching it.
Caroline: It’s not getting matched. Yeah. One thing I wanna add, too, with corduroy is sometimes off the bolt, it can seem like corduroy marks really easily. Like, if you run your nails across it, you’ll see those marks. I don’t know. We’ve looked at a lot of corduroys, and we’ve test washed a lot of corduroys at Blackbird when, especially this past year when we were picking out our cords for this season.
And we found that after washing them everything, kind of, smooths out and looks a little bit better. I don’t know if it’s the starch in the fabric or if it’s just certain weaves can do that, but I find if you’re finding a fabric to be a little finicky or maybe marking really easily and that’s bothering you when you’re cutting it out, just give it a pre-wash, and, and you’ll see, and it’ll all, it’ll all go away.
Helen: Why are you cutting out before you pre-wash it anyway?
Caroline: Exactly! Right? I wasn’t gonna say anything in this made-up scenario.
Helen: You’re subtly saying something.
Caroline: You should be pre-washing first anyway.
Helen: That is good to know though, because sometimes when fabrics arrive you’re like, oh, it feels, kind of, weird. And it’s true that after washing a lot of those feelings go away.
Caroline: Yeah. Yeah.
Helen: There’s a lot of starch in there. Alright. You can use sew-in interfacing rather than feasible interfacing with corduroy as well. And if you have a thick corduroy, you’re gonna wanna do similar things that you would do with velvet, like reducing the bulk by trimming and grading the seams, doing single fold hems. And you can use a lighter weight fabric for things like facings if the pattern calls for them. A Hong Kong finish is great on thick corduroys. Otherwise, a serging finish is just fine.
Caroline: So I haven’t actually sewn with a ton of corduroy, but I feel like you have made some amazing corduroy York Pinafores.
Helen: Mhm.
Caroline: I’m sure I’ve seen a pair of corduroy Yantas. You have your corduroy Brooks Jeans that you just debuted. So do you love sewing corduroy? Do you have tips?
Helen: I don’t find it to be hard to sew. I think the pressing is the biggest area where things can go awry because it’s very easy to mark cord with that hot iron, and I’m always eager to get to my ironing board and just get it pressed and get back to my sewing.
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: So you do have to take your time a little bit there, and I’ve made mistakes with nap direction, and I’ve burnt a little bit of my pile with my iron, and everything still turns out okay in the end. Like, these little details, nobody notices. It’s fine. It’s gonna happen. It’s not a big deal.
But I will say that cord is typically pretty stable. It’s usually made of cotton or a cotton blend, so it’s a nice stable fabric to work with. It can be a little difficult to press, but once you do figure out how to press it, it presses well because it’s cotton, and so it’s fun to sew, and it’s really fun to wear. It’s super cosy and comfortable, so I love that about it.
Caroline: Awesome. We’ll have to show some of your corduroy makes in the show notes…
Helen: Ooh, yes!
Caroline: …‘cause you have so many good ones.
Okay, next up, clip dot fabric. This is known by a few different names, including dotted Swiss, Swiss dot, and clip spot. Typically, it’s made with a lawn or batiste weight ground fabric with small napped dots made by drawing up extra fibres into loops, kind of like velvet. Those loops and the yarn floats on the back are clipped to make little textured dots at regular intervals all over the ground fabric.
Clip dot fabric is perfect for sundresses, and it’s super easy to sew in cotton. If you have a slinky synthetic or silk clip dot fabric, treat it like a delicate fabric. We have a whole episode with tips about Sewing Delicate Fabrics. And we recommend doing French seams if the fabric is very sheer. And if it’s sheer, you’ll probably wanna line it or wear a slip underneath. Check out our episode on Linings for more info on that.
I love a clip dot fabric or a clip spot or dotted Swiss. I love ’em all. I love that little bit of texture. I’ve also seen some really cool ones that are, like, dotted Swiss with a print on top. I mean, for a summer, like, floaty summer dress, I feel like that can be so cute.
Helen: That’s so cool. Yeah. It’s lovely to wear a garment that has texture like that, and I think it can be dressed up or down, which is, kind of, fun.
Caroline: Mhm.
Helen: You can take a more casual shirt and turn it into something that looks more blouse-y, but you can also just wear it casually as well. It doesn’t necessarily need to be a fancy fabric for a fancy occasion. In this case, I think this can be an everyday fabric with a little bit of personality, which is fun.
Caroline: Yeah, totally.
Helen: Okay, next up we have crepe. Crepe can be made in many different fibres and weaves. It’s the twist of the yarns that give it the signature crepe-y texture. The yarns are hard spun, which means they are twisted much more tightly than usual.
Crepe is typically matte, and that’s part of why it was historically the fabric of choice for mourning outfits. I mean, I guess, like, shiny fabrics made it look like you were having too much fun and not mourning enough, so we had to come up with matte fabrics.
Um, but now it’s just a beautiful choice for evening wear or especially for suiting. You see it a lot in suiting.
Caroline: Yeah, and there are a few variations on crepe. Wool crepe is often used for suiting. Crepe de Chine doesn’t have the characteristic wrinkle texture of other crepes. Instead, it has a pebbled texture. Crepe georgette is a lighter sheer fabric with a less noticeable texture than most crepes. And crepe back satin has a matte textured side and a shiny satin side.
When I was trying on wedding dresses last week, I tried on, like, a bias cut heavy crepe dress with a cowl neck, and I had never even, like, seen such a thick, spongy, crepe up close, but it was so beautiful and hefty and the drape of it on the bias was super elegant. Anyway, it really, it kind of, I don’t know, mesmerised, me. It was one of those fabrics that I was like, this is just stunning. And it was just very simple.
Helen: I can imagine that because when fabrics have a lot of weight and body, they have such a beautiful, like, feel when they’re draped on your body. And with wedding dresses you get a lot of fabric, so it probably felt amazing to have all of that on you.
Caroline: Yeah. Definitely, the most fun part of, uh, shopping for wedding dresses was the research, the fabric research.
Helen: That’s so cool. You get to really seem like a pro in the shop, too. Be like, um, is this a crepe back satin?
Caroline: Oh, yeah. There were a couple times where the salesperson was like, so this is called tulle, and I was like, yeah, I know.
Helen: Yeah. Okay, let me tell you. Well, the lighter weight sheer crepes are trickier to sew than those wool crepes. You can cut them in a single layer, and keep an eye on that grainline. You may want to put tissue paper down underneath the fabric so the grainline doesn’t shift as you handle.
Caroline: And use a press cloth whenever you’re pressing. Also, consider starching the fabric using thin strips of stabiliser or sewing through tissue paper to make it easier to sew with.
Helen: You wanna use a really sharp needle to avoid snagging the fabric, maybe even a microtex needle. And you can increase the presser foot pressure and reduce your tension so that things go through your machine smoothly. You can also try a walking foot to feed the fabric evenly. That can help, too.
Caroline: And French seams are a great choice for a finish. Hand rolled hems or a machine sewn baby hems look great on crepe fabric as well.
Helen: You know what kind of crepe fabric I love the most?
Caroline: What?
Helen: Rayon crepe!
Caroline: Ooh. I feel like we just glossed over that. There are so many good crepes out there.
Helen: There really are. Yeah.
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: It’s a very versatile fabric. Lots of different things going on, but whenever I see a rayon crepe pop up at Blackbird, I pretty much always buy it…
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: …‘cause I just love the way it feels. I love that texture, and I love that matte, like, appearance. Uh, I don’t know. There’s something special about it.
Caroline: Yeah. And, I mean, not all crepes are created equal ‘cause some of them can have a little bit more of a sheen. Like, a, often, a crepe de Chine has a sheen to it, spelled different. But, um, yeah, or, you know, sometimes they’ll have, like, a drier hand, and sometimes they’ll have a warmer hand. So yeah, if you see fabric, a crepe fabric in store, touch it, feel it. Feel it up.
Helen: Okay, so fabrics can have, like, a wet or a dry hand. Is there such a thing as a wet hand?
Caroline: I think, it’s a, I think I would, yeah. Warm hand. Dry hand.
Helen: Cool hand.
Caroline: Cool hand. Yes.
Helen: So there’s no wet hand?
Caroline: I, not, there’s no wet hand. No. I would say it’s…
Helen: Damp hand?
Caroline: …like, dry or soft. I can’t say I’ve ever actually, you know what, like, a faux leather…
Helen: Has a wet hand?
Caroline: …kind of, has a wet hand. It’s a bit annoying, but in the sense that, like, you touch it, and then, you immediately get sweaty.
Helen: Oh, yeah. Like, you are wet, you’re physically.
Caroline: Therefore, the fabric becomes wet from your sweaty palm.
Helen: But, like, a lot of times I feel, like, a, a drapey cool fabric could also be interpreted as, as wet in the sense that it feels, like, very watery, like moisture.
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: I don’t know, like a waterfall.
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: I’m reading too much into this probably, but when I heard you say dry hand, I was immediately like, okay, so then, ergo, wet hand.
Caroline: Helen, I’d love to see you go into a fabric store and be like, I would like the fabric with the wettest hand. Yeah, please.
Helen: Show me your dankest fabric.
Caroline: Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
Helen: Okay, moving on. We’ve got dobby weave. Dobby weave fabrics have small, regular, textured, often geometric, elements woven into the fabric. They’re made on a dobby loom. This loom was introduced in the 1840s, and it’s comparable to the jacquard loom in that it created a much more efficient way to manufacture patterned, woven fabrics, but it’s more limited in the designs that it can make than the jacquard loom.
The word dobby is actually a variation on draw boy, which we talked about earlier, and that’s because it’s a tool that does what the draw boy used to do. It lifts and releases the shafts that control the threads, and that’s what makes the design. So you often see dobby fabric used for men’s dress shirts or women’s silky blouses to give it a subtle texture and visual interest.
Caroline: Mhm. Not to keep bringing it back to Blackbird, but we have a dobby in the store right now that’s really cute. It’s holiday season. We’re bringing in the fancy fabrics, but there’s something about a dobby, it just adds a little element of texture and sheen without the fabric being too shiny. And you, sort of, get that tone on tone look, and the fabric that we have particularly is really vibrant. It holds colour so well. It’s just like, I don’t know, it’s just really beautiful, and I just wanna sew it up into, like, a billowy blouse. It’s just so perfect for that.
Okay. Woven pique is a type of dobby weave. It uses extra yarns called stuffer yarns to create its texture. It typically has a texture design, like parallel cords or geometric shapes. Some white tie shirts are made in a pique weave so that they can hold more starch. Waffle, honeycomb, and bird’s eye are all pique weaves. A thick waffle or honeycomb pique is wonderful for a robe. And there’s also pique knit, which has a fine texture of alternating raised stitches and little pits that give it a cellular effect. It’s usually used for polo shirts.
Helen: Ooh, cool. Yeah, I wasn’t that familiar with dobby versus like swiss dot. I think I thought they were all, kind of, the same thing, but it makes sense now that I’m looking at the picture comparisons that they are different things, and it seems like there’s lots of different ways that you can do dobby weaves.
Caroline: Mhm. Yeah. I think the biggest difference is, like, a dobby is almost like a jacquard or similar to a jacquard in, in the weave, whereas a swiss or clip dot is more like a velvet…
Helen: Mhm.
Caroline: …um, in some ways, but…
Helen: Yeah, because it has that ground fabric and then it has those, like, protrusions, right?
Caroline: Exactly. Yeah.
Helen: Okay. Our last but certainly not least fabric is seersucker. Seeersucker is a lightweight fabric with a puckered bubbly texture. It’s usually striped, and it’s made by changing up the tension on the loom, so the warp threads are fed at a faster rate than the weft threads creating bands that pucker up. The puckering makes it a great fabric for hot weather garments because it stands away from the skin. You can look for a cotton seersucker for better breathability.
It makes amazing sundresses shirts and even summer suits. I always think of seersucker as, like, something that people at, like, the turn of the century wore in the summertime for fancy occasions. I don’t know. I’ve never made anything out of it, I don’t think.
Caroline: Helen, you can make a seersucker suit to wear to my wedding, and I’ll wear satin.
Helen: Yeah. Oh, a great texture difference. I love it.
Caroline: Yes. We’re gonna play with all the fancy weaves for the holidays and beyond.
Helen: Yes. I’m so excited. Do you have anything in mind for a holiday outfit? I guess you just made those satin dresses, so maybe you’re all set.
Caroline: I did just make those satin dresses, and I’m spending the holidays at home with Shea this year.
Helen: Nice.
Caroline: No, like, fancy occasions to go to, but I was thinking it would be fun to make a pair of satin pyjamas to wear around the house.
Helen: Ooh. Yes. That would be amazing. I got some fancy fabrics from y’all at Blackbird with a few projects in mind. I would really like to sew a velvet Dawson top…
Caroline: Ooh.
Helen: …with a stretch velvet. I think that would be really fun. And, like, a nice holiday outfit that’s not, you know, uncomfortable. It’s just like…
Caroline: Yeah.
Helen: …it’s casual but fancy at the same time.
Caroline: Mhm.
Helen: Um, and in a similar vein, I bought some of the floral mesh fabric that you guys have that’s also stretchy.
Caroline: Ooh.
Helen: And I’m just gonna make, like, a mesh Dawson or a mesh Jackson tee.
Caroline: Yes.
Helen: Um, and wear it over, like, a black bralette or something. I haven’t quite figured it out, but that’s another look that I really enjoy, so I’m gonna try that.
Caroline: I’m so into the mesh trend…
Helen: Yeah.
Caroline: Like, the sheer top layered trend with, like, ruching and sleeves. Lean in. I love it.
Helen: Well, now that we know a little bit more about these fancy weave fabrics that we’ve been seeing on our sewing journey and in the shops these days, well, hopefully, actually we know a lot more, you can go out there and get started on all your holiday projects. And if there’s any other special woven fabrics you’d like us to cover, let us know. We are always down to do a fabric deep dive.
Caroline: Yeah, we are
That’s it for today’s episode of Love to Sew. You can find me Caroline at BlackbirdFabrics.com and Helen at HelensClosetPatterns.com. And we’re recording today in beautiful, sunny British Columbia, Canada.
Helen: Go to LoveToSewPodcast.com to find our show notes. They’re filled with links and pictures from this episode. And if you’d like to get in touch with us, you can send us an email at hello@LoveToSewPodcast.com
Caroline: If you love Love To Sew and want more, you can sign up for our Patreon. For $5 a month, you get a full bonus episode and weekly behind-the-scenes pictures from us. And for $10 a month, you’ll get all that plus a mini-episode focused on sewing techniques and 15% off codes for Helen’s Closet and Blackbird Fabrics that you can use again and again. Patreon is the best way to support us so that we can keep making quality sewing content for y’all. Go to patreon.com/LoveToSew for more info.
Helen: Thank you to our amazing podcast team. Lisa Ruiz is our creative assistant. Jordan Moore is our editor. And Margaret Wakelee is our transcriber. And thank you for listening. We’ll talk to you next week.
Caroline: Bye.
Helen: Bye.
Ooh, fancy.
Caroline: Fancy. We’re getting fancy today.
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