Support us on Patreon! Love to Sew Podcast

Follow Helen! Blog: Helen’s  Closet Patterns, Instagram: @helens__closet

Follow Caroline! Shop: Blackbird Fabrics, Instagram: @blackbirdfabrics

Follow the Podcast! Instagram: @lovetosew.podcast, Facebook: /LovetoSewPod

Leave us a voicemail with your questions, comments, and feedback: 1-844-SEW-WHAT (1-844-739-9428)

E-mail us: hello@lovetosewpodcast.com

Sign up for our newsletter to get weekly episode updates, special news, and even some exclusive content that you won’t find anywhere else.

Leave us a review! It will help other sewists discover us.

---

Transcript:

Helen: We are recording today on the traditional, ancestral, and unceded territories of the Coast Salish and Kwakwaka’wakw peoples, including Tsleil-Waututh, Squamish, Musqueam, and K’ómoks first nations.

Caroline: Hello, and welcome to Love to Sew. I’m Caroline, the owner of Blackbird Fabrics.

Helen: And I’m Helen, the designer behind Helen’s Closet Patterns.

Caroline: We’re two sewing buds who love to sew our own clothes and want to encourage you on your sewing journey, too.

Helen: Join us for today’s interview with Ada Chen and Nicole Angeline from the Asian Sewist Collective.

Hello, Ada and Nicole. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Ada: Hi, thanks for having us.

Helen: We’re so excited to have you BOTH on the show today. You are both the hosts of the Asian Sewist Collective podcast. And to start us off, Ada, can you introduce yourself to our listeners?

Ada: Sure. Uh, I’m Ada Chen. I am a second generation, Taiwanese American sewist. I use she/her pronouns, and you can find my sewing @I.Hope.Sew.

Caroline: Awesome. And Nicole?

Nicole: Hi, thanks for having us today. My name is Nicole. I’m a Filipinx American woman. I use she/her pronouns, and you can find me @NicoleAngelineSews on Instagram.

Caroline: Amazing. And we’ll obviously be linking your profiles up in our show notes, but we ask all of our guests how and when they learn to sew. So let’s start with you Ada. Can you tell us your sewing story?

Ada: Ooh, well, I learned to hand sew when I was little, and my home-ec class, unfortunately, did not involve sewing machines, so I didn’t actually get a machine until sometime during the pandemic. And then I, kind of, dove right in and went a little wild with garment sewing.

Caroline: Awesome. Do you remember the first thing you ever made on, on a sewing machine?

Ada: It was a linen apron, and I remember making a linen apron because I had seen all these really nice ones in stores for years. And I was like $200 is a lot of money for a linen apron. I was, like, I could do it, like, linen fabric can’t be that expensive. Turns out nice linen fabric is expensive, but it does hold up. And I did, I think it was a free pattern from Purl Soho with a crisscross back. And I French seamed the whole thing because I didn’t have a serger. So instead of it being, like, an hour-long project, it became, like, a weekend-long project, but I still wear that apron. It’s great.

Helen: And it still made you want to sew more, so it was a success.

Ada: It was a success.

Helen: That is one of the biggest hurdles when you start sewing though, the realisation that it’s not in fact going to be cheaper than buying clothes. A bit disappointing, but once you get over that, it’s all beautiful.

Caroline: Ada, what are you working on right now?I love that you guys talk about this on, at the beginning of your podcast. So we want to know what you’re working on.

Ada: So I am working on, what I will say is, an interesting project. I’m trying to copy a pair of well-loved, almost-ten-year old, uh, exercise bike shorts that are, I guess I would consider them fast fashion, a big athletic wear company that I no longer buy from.

And I’d cut all the pieces, but the problem is there’s a gusset, and so trying to reverse engineer my favourite pair of exercise shorts without taking them apart and get the gusset is currently, kind of, like doing all sorts of complicated equations in my head right now.

Helen: Oh, man, that does sound challenging. Like, it’s impossible to lie it down flat when there’s a three-dimensional gusset piece in there.

Ada: Exactly. And it’s the remaining fabric of this really cool, like, remnant that I got at a secondhand creative reuse store up in Boulder. And the other half of that remnant was actually turned into the top from the Sandpiper Swimsuit, so I’m trying to go for, like, that matching exercise look, but the gusset, the gusset.

Helen: I cannot wait to see this. I have turned Sandpiper into a sports athletic top as well, and I love it. It’s going to be so fun to see it as a matching set. Nicole, how about you? Tell us about your sewing journey.

Nicole: Like Ada, or maybe not like Ada, I’m fairly new to the sewing scene. I know, Ada, you said you learned how to hand sew a while back. I did not. My sewing journey really started right before March 2020, before the pandemic started. And it was really just come, came out of a desire to dabble in making small things. Uh, what I wanted to make was a u-, like, a reusable utensil holder. So I don’t know if you’ve seen those, like, roll up-type things where you can stick, like, a fork and a knife and a straw and keep it with you so that you’re not using plastic.

Yeah, totally.

Nicole: That’s what I was trying to go for. And so I picked up a very inexpensive, new, but inexpensive, sewing machine I think it was February 29th, 2020. And that’s, I just remember the date because it was the leap year, um, and then my niece’s birthday was a couple of days later. So I go hard when I find something new and interesting, you could say. So from unboxing my sewing machine to a reversible apron for a three-year old, it was, like, nine hours. And I didn’t un-box it at nine in the morning. I un-boxed it probably at, like, six at night. So I just ploughed through and made this adorable, cute apron. Um, but you know, you learn the most when you’re under stress sometimes. I wouldn’t advocate for it, but that’s, that’s really how I started to, that’s how I learned how to sew. And it’s been this journey of making, primarily clothing for myself, um, once I got over that rush of masks, that was, that happened back then. I turned to more shapelier things and things I could put on my body in other places besides my face. And that’s where I’m at.

Caroline: And what are you working on right now? What’s your current sewing project?

Nicole: So I don’t have anything at my sewing machine. And I don’t know if this happens to you, but I spend a lot more time, I’m spending time thinking right now. So I’m in the planning stages of what I want to make next. And I am just mulling over what pieces I want to make for an upcoming vacation. And I’m still in the mental part of that, where I’m just thinking and looking on Instagram and at my patterns and looking at my fabric, but I haven’t really come up with what I wanted to make yet. And I’m not going to make a new wardrobe completely for this trip, but I just want a couple new things that would, you know, integrate with what I already have. So I don’t have anything specific I’m working on, but that’s the process I’m in right now.

Caroline: Oh, I can relate. I always feel really inspired before a trip, and I’ve talked about this on the pod before, to sew, like, a whole new wardrobe or at least a few new pieces cause you’re like, well, I’m going to be travelling. I’m going to want to wear something fresh and fun and new, right?

Ada: And I can take pictures of it.

Caroline: Exactly.

Ada: That’s what I was going to say. I mean, let’s be real here.

Caroline: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. I have to know. How did you two meet?

Ada: So, um, fun fact: we’ve never met in real life yet, which is hilarious because I think we met through the internet about a year ago, a little over a year ago at this point. And we met because, after the Atlanta shootings, um, where six women of Asian descent were killed, I was really feeling it and deep in my feels posted on my sewing Instagram and was, like, mulling it over with Leila of Muna and Broad. And I was like, what if a podcast space existed for people who look like us. And she and Jillian, formerly of the Sewcialists, and Lisa of Black Women Stitch, all amplified that and put out a ca-, call for me.

And somehow Nicole popped up in that call, and then we started, I think on Instagram we were DM-ing, and then it moved to text, and then it moved back to Instagram, and then it moved to Slack. And somehow it was, like, a whirlwind. Within a month we had a podcast team, and we were chatting all the time, not only about the podcast that we work on, um, but also what we were just sewing in our free time. And we would just, like, hop on Zoom, and so it was, like, sewing together, kind of, in the same space, but we weren’t physically in the same space. We were just on Zoom, and we would have to mute when we were running our machines if it got too close to the mic.

Helen: Yeah. Oh, I love stories like this. It’s just so amazing that people can meet online and develop these friendships. And the fact that you started this amazing podcast together just takes it to a whole other level. So can you introduce your podcast to our listeners who haven’t heard of you before.

Nicole: Yes, of course, I’d be happy to. The Asian Sewist Collective is a group of people of Asian descent who enjoy sewing as a hobby. It’s as simple as that, but what brought us together, you know, is the same thing that Ada talked about: this desire to connect to with other people who share similar experiences with us and to connect through craft. And so we have folks from all around the world.

Um, Ada and I are both based in North America, so a lot of our recording happens around, you know, when we can, uh, talk to each other. But we have folks from everywhere who joined us, and we have a pretty sizable team now. Everyone is very integral to the success of the podcast, but we bring our own personal experiences as people of Asian descent to everything about the podcast, from our episode discussions and selections, the people that we bring in as guests for the podcast.

And we also try to find ways to see if our Asian identity intersects with our sewing. And sometimes it’s just, we are Asian, and we bring those experiences with us wherever we go. And other times, like for me, it’s, I’ve been able to explore a little bit more of my cultural identity through sewing, so…

Caroline: Awesome. And so the Asian Sewist Collective is not just the two of you. You two host the podcast, but there are more people involved. So can you tell us a little bit more about how that’s organised and how you make decisions about things like what topics to produce and who does what work?

Ada: Yeah. So how we run the podcast, I think is a little bit different from how any other podcasts or group that I know of is run, and a lot of that stems from my background in community organising in the AAPI community. So we have, we basically recruit on a seasonal basis, and we accept anybody who is willing to contribute their time on a volunteer basis with us for a certain amount of time to get a season out. And we all have different roles within that. And everybody gets a say in, the reason it’s a collective is, because everybody gets to say, and we all get to say in what gets made and how we make it. And so we make decisions a lot of the time as a group.

For example, on how we decide on what episode topics to do. We will brainstorm all of that. And since we don’t live in the same place, it’s all asynchronous, and through the magic of Google docs. We will have, like, timelines and deadlines around that to, kind of, get everyone on the same page. And then we’ll meet pretty infrequently when we’re not recording to organise, discuss, and then vote on those topics. And then, um, once an idea or a topic has enough support from people that, kind of, signals to us that there’s enough of us who are working on the podcast who want to work on a specific topic, or find a guest for a certain topic, to put in the work to get that episode made. And then we, kind of, divvy up the work from there. And all of it is, like, what can you do? And when, and, are you free? And it’s all volunteer-based. So yeah, it’s, it’s a pretty interesting and unique system, I think.

Helen: And are you and Nicole, the ones, sort of, wrangling all these people?

Ada: Yes. So we use lots of online tools, which is lovely. And if it wasn’t for the internet, this would not exist, but I will be sending out weekly reminders. We just ask everyone who volunteers to be on the podcast to commit to a set of expectations and agreements to make it a supportive and welcoming and inclusive community. And to just work better together because you don’t want to send a message off into the internet and never get a response. So we ask everyone to check in about once a week cause we know everyone has, like, full-time jobs or maybe they’re a caregiver or all the other things that happen in life not next to your computer or phone.

Helen: It’s so cool that you have all of these different people working on the show. And it sounds like people come and go, too. Is there a way that people can reach out and join the Collective if they want to get involved?

Ada: Yeah, so we are currently, I guess, kind of, closed because we’re currently working on season three and when season three ends, we will usually, we’ll take a break. We’ll do a little retro at the end and, kind of, say, what did we like? What did we not like? And refine our processes. So the way that we worked has changed over the seasons, and then we will establish, kind of, a timeframe loosely for the next season.

And a few weeks before that kicks off, we will put out a call on our Instagram @AsianSewistCollective to see if anyone’s interested and have them fill out a Google form so that we can get in touch with them and understand how much time they have and what they’re interested in and what we need as a Collective in terms of skills and interests and expertise, not only in sewing, but also things like social media and editing.

And sometimes there’s folks who have no experience in the things that we need, but are super willing to learn because it’s just something new. And so we will then be able to, like, teach them and figure out different roles for them. And that process takes about a month before each season. And then we will announce the new team for each season, right before we begin recording.

Caroline: Yeah, I’m sure it is amazing to have so many minds working on a project like this, and I’m sure that it really enriches the content that you all are putting out, so I encourage our listeners to check out your podcast, and we’ll talk a little bit more about some of the specific episodes that you cover or specific topics that you cover, but it is so rare that we get to chat with other podcast hosts. So can we talk for a minute about making a podcast?

Nicole: Yeah, of course.

Caroline: I guess my first question is: what’s your favourite part of making a podcast?

Nicole: For me, I think it’s easily being able to expand the people that I meet through the podcast, and whether it’s the members of the collective, who I have gotten to known, know better, whose skills have grown along with mine, we are discovering new things together, and we can also just get excited and nerd out about sewing together, to our guests and the people who I may see from afar on the interwebs, but actually get to interact with and form relationships with. Easily making the podcast, the best part about making the podcast is meeting and developing all of these new relationships with everyone involved. What about you, Ada?

Ada: I think I am, kind of, of a similar mind. I’m a huge nerd, and I really like our research process because we go really in-depth and not only do we get to provide that information for listeners, but in that process, we get to learn it as well and ask interesting questions. And I love that everyone involved on our team asks really good questions and is so thoughtful about their approach. So I’m also learning from them at the same time about, like, why they’re asking these questions.

And I, I don’t know, I’ve just learned so much, not only in, like, how to make a podcast, but the topics that we get to cover that I probably, you know, if I was walking around the library, wouldn’t necessarily think to myself, oh, I should go, like, pick up that book and read a whole deep dive on it. But in the process of making each episode, we essentially get to do that. We get to do a whole deep dive on a new topic or a person and what they’re doing in the sewing world, and so that’s been really, really gratifying.

Caroline: Yeah. We feel the same way. It’s so fun to be able to dive deep into topics that you would normally maybe not go quite so deep into. Uh, but it’s really fun cause you feel like, you know, you want to do that research and have all that or as much information as possible for your listeners. So it’s, it’s, sort of, that push and that encouragement that, uh, that we need. Okay. What about your least favourite part of making a podcast?

Ada: I don’t know if it’s the same for you two, but I really hate listening to my own voice over and over. And I listen to every episode, at least three to five times before it’s released, and I’m the person in charge of hitting the release button. So by the time it comes out on my phone, I just, I’m just, like, over it. I don’t need to listen again.

Helen: Oh yes. We can definitely relate to that. It is painful to listen to your own voice. I think that’s a universal feeling.

Caroline: Yeah.

Helen: We have to reassure each other. It’s, like, no, you don’t sound shrill. You sound great. How about you, Nicole?

Nicole: I don’t know. I, uh, don’t actually mind listening to my own voice. I don’t know what that says about me. But, um, uh, it doesn’t, it doesn’t bother me as much when I’m, like, reviewing episodes for video or if I’m listening, I listen to the episodes as they come out as well. And I get excited when I’m listening to it as a listener as well, not just as someone who’s working on it. My least favourite part, I think it’s, maybe for me, it’s wishing we could go from, like, recording and seeing the final product. It’s the time that it takes to really get, you know, the, the quality product that we have.

It takes time, it takes effort and, and I don’t want to do more effort. Like, I w-, I want it now. Um, but I think it’s just, you know, it does take a lot of time and energy, but podcasting is something that I never thought I would love doing. And I don’t think I would love it as much as I do if it weren’t for the people that I do this with and, you know, all the things that I get to learn. So to sum up, I guess my least favourite part is having to do the work part of the podcast.

Helen: I love that answer. It’s so honest. It’s great being a podcaster, but it’s hard work. And I don’t like doing that part. Well, what about episodes? What’s your favourite episode of the podcast so far? People have asked this to us before, too, and it’s so hard to answer, so I’m sorry.

Ada: Oh my gosh. And I think I’ve listened to all your episodes. There are a lot of Love to Sew episodes. We have, like, 20 something. I think, so far, my favourite episode, it might be because of the way that the recording was set up. But we did an interview with a textile artist named Joy Mao, and she actually happens, we share a mutual best friend. Her high school, best friend is my college university best friend, and that’s how we got connected. And when I started sewing, our mutual best friend, Emily, just would send things back and forth between us.

And so getting to actually sit down with her and talk to her about her process and how she got to work with a non-profit in New York’s Chinatown was fantastic and, like, a whole new context to a relationship that I didn’t get to see yet. And I think it was definitely a highlight that I had to record this with our mutual best friend Emily present, because we were actually at a bachelorette party, and I was the one who misscheduled the recordings so I had to wake up at 7:00 AM to do this recording.

Helen: Oh my gosh. Well that sounds really cool. Like, it’s amazing to open up this relationship even further, like, just through your connection over textiles and to get to know that person. That sounds really cool.

Nicole: I remember you were in a closet.

Ada: Laundry room. Laundry room padded with towels because as all good podcasters and sewists know, you need to have a lot of soft materials around you.

Helen: Yeah, that’s true.

Caroline: What about you, Nicole? Do you have a favourite episode?

Nicole: That is a very tough question. And I am automatically going to say all my guests, all the guest episodes are my favourite because I don’t want to pick a person. I think that one of the most important episodes for me as an individual was the episode on imposter syndrome. And so it is one of my favourites because there was so much personal revelation and just my mind was being blown about some of the ways that imposter syndrome, not manifests, because I feel like many people, particularly women, like, we hear it and we get it, but just the way that societal expectations play into that.

I just, I just loved being able to understand the research behind it and hear all of the perspectives instead of just the, I don’t know about you, but I’ll be honest, the Instagram, like, carousel photos that you’ve, end up on your feed and you’re like, this is so me, you know, but to really take a deep dive into it and feel validated and hopeful about some thing that in the past has really gotten me down before. So I think I’m going to go with imposter syndrome on this one.

Caroline: That was a great episode. There was a moment in that episode, Nicole, where you were, like, I am good at sewing, and I am a good public speaker. And then Ada was, like, and you’re great at sewing knits. And I was, like, this is the best moment ever. Like, it was so sweet. And I just, I, I relate to that. And I, and I, you know, I, I love pumping up Helen, too, cause she’s a great sewist. And I think we all experience those moments of feeling like an imposter, but I loved hearing you all unpack that and all of the layers to that. So we’ll definitely link that up in the show notes. It was a great episode.

Okay. We talked about this briefly, but can you tell us a little bit more about how you all come up with ideas for episode topics?

Ada: Yeah, so we got a lot of listener suggestions, which if you are a listener, keep them coming. We love them. They all get dumped, truthfully into one giant spreadsheet on Google Sheets, and then we have, like, a massive go at it, kind of, for probably a few weeks before each season where we just ask everybody on the team to put whatever random ideas they have about episodes or topics or things they want to see us do or learn more about into that spreadsheet.

And then we, kind of, organise some of it, like, we’ll group up things and remove duplicates and ask clarifying questions if we’re, like, I don’t really know what this term means, or I don’t know what you’re talking about. Can you please link me to something about it? So that we’re all going into the selection process with the same, kind of, understanding. And we basically have a discussion on that sheet about all of our different topics and all of the different ideas that we have, potential guests ideas, too.

And sum all of it up, figure out what our topics are for each season. And then we do a vote, and it’s not, like, a you only get one vote. Like, each person gets, um, multiple votes. So it’s, kind of, like, a weighted ballot. I don’t know how to call it officially, but it’s, like, a weighted vote where everybody gets the same number of votes. You can vote on multiple different topics because we obviously make more than one episode per season. And we end up with, like, a top list of maybe 20 or so ideas. And each season doesn’t have 20 episodes.

So we end up starting work on all of those ideas and then seeing how far we get. And for some of them, we end up finding out that the topic isn’t as robust as we would have liked or maybe it’s shorter, and so we, kind of, table it. Or maybe we’re not able to secure a guest in time for that season, so we’ll table it, but then others, we will end up doing, like, a whole huge research, deep dive on, and we’ll end up recording it. And that’s what you end up seeing in your podcast feed.

Helen: I love the peek behind the curtain. It’s amazing how some episode topics seem like they’re going to be great. And then you start getting into it, and you’re, like, there’s not as much here as I thought. And then also the reverse can happen, too, where you’re, like, maybe this should be a two-parter cause this is going to be so long.

Nicole: That has already happened twice to us. Is that right, Ada?

Ada: Yeah. Twice. And I think it might happen again in season three. I don’t know. We have to actually sit down and record some of them and see.

Helen: Yeah. You mentioned the seasons, which is something that we’ve switched to doing as well. What was behind that decision for you all?

Ada: Honestly, mostly the fact that we’re all podcasting and working on this in our free time. It, like, no one, it’s no one’s full-time job or even part-time job. And we wanted to make sure that since it was volunteer-based, we could give people clear expectations on how much time they would need to dedicate. And, like, when certain people in the podcast team have other commitments, like, they might be in school or they might teach school.

And so their calendar is a little bit tied to the school year, at least in North America, and so they have different availabilities throughout the year. And then some people, you know, they may have a slower time at work when they can dedicate more time to the podcast and then things pick up and we understand that life happens.

So most of the decision to do seasons was to keep it, kind of, structured that way so that people would have freedom to, kind of, come and go and not feel like they were overcommitting or tied up to something because we didn’t want to burn anybody out with what was supposed to start out as just, like, a fun podcast project.

Helen: Very wise decision. I have to say it makes a lot of sense. And I love looking forward to new seasons when my favourite podcasts go on a break and then they come back. I’m always so happy to see them. How about feedback from listeners? Because you must get all sorts of stuff in your inbox. So how has it been interacting with people who are listening to your show?

Nicole: It’s been really wonderful, but in some ways also challenging given the way that we record and released our episodes. So with regard to forming relationships and getting feedback, feedback is the only way we can get better and continue to produce content that other people are interested in, particularly, our listeners of Asian descent cause we want the space to be great for them, too. But since we record in batches, sometimes we don’t get to, we’ll get feedback way further out than when we recorded. And we aren’t necessarily able to respond to the feedback in whatever the next episode is in chronological order.

So that part has been a little bit challenging, but I think we found a nice balance with last season, season two, we, we did what lots of podcasters do, and we did a mailbag episode where we could capture all the things that came in at different times throughout the season. But I love the, to be able to speak to our listeners and to hear from them and that they are comfortable and willing and eager to share their thoughts and ideas.

And of course, positive feedback is always nice to hear, too, so…

Helen: Make it a sandwich, right? Positive, critiques, and positive.

Nicole: Yes. Yes.

Helen: No, it’s so true. It has been an amazing opportunity for growth for us both to interact with the community in that way to get that feedback. And then it is a little hard to implement sometimes because you are making it ahead of time, and you want to react in a timely fashion, but I’m sure people are giving you lots of grace on that front, so try not to take it too seriously.

Nicole: Yes. Yes.

Caroline: And you all also record yourselves and post the video on YouTube of your podcast recording, which, kind of, blows my mind. It’s something that Helen and I vowed never to do early on. We were, like, video, not for us, but I want to know, like, how do you make that work with audio editing and such? Because our audio editor works magic. He cuts out a lot of ums and a lot of other random sniffles and things. So how do you make that work with video?

Nicole: So I think the secret is all of those sniffles are actually in the YouTube videos. So our editing process, it’s a multi-stage process where the, the editor cuts a rough edit, where the major ums and ahs or pauses that we take and rerecords those all get smashed cut together into one file, and then it gets refined from there.

But with our YouTube video, we just take that smash cut and we, kind of, just go from there. It’s, for us, the podcast, the audio medium has been the way that our listeners reach us. So the investment in the time to perfect or refine the YouTube video has been lower on our commitment. And I think people haven’t really noticed, as far as I know, I don’t think we’ve gotten feedback about the poorer quality of our YouTube channel, but I think we just aim for more perfection with the audio and then just do more of a rough cut on YouTube.

But I, for my part, I try to just, kind of, be presentable. I try to wear a me made, but other than that, you know, it’s a, because it’s built in to our podcasting platform, that video recording, then we were like, mm, it’s content. Let’s go for it. And that’s, it’s really all it is at this point, but maybe it will evolve into something more. But I think right now, we’re, we’re doing okay.

Helen: Yeah. It is nice to have that video option for people to be able to see your faces and maybe tell you apart. That’s something people really struggle with with Caroline and I, but I’m just so married to podcasting in my pyjamas with, like, in my little closet room with poor lighting. I can’t let it go.

Ada: I mean, I never said, she never said that we’re not wearing pyjama bottoms.

Helen: True. Oh, so true. You can wear whatever you want in the lower half. It’s great.

Caroline: Um, can you give us any sneak peeks of upcoming episodes that you have planned for your third season?

Ada: Yes. So season three, it should be coming out about a week after this episode comes out, so May 18th. Mark your calendars. Our episode topics include really cool guests from all different areas of sewing, so some quilting folks, some vintage sewing folks, bra sewing folks. We’ve got a focus on some more fabric. So if you’ve ever heard of batik or batik fabric, we’ve got a deep dive on that. And then we’ve got also more interesting identity related topics like gender non-conformity.

Caroline: Ooh, awesome.

Helen: Oh my gosh. I can’t wait. I love your fabric deep dive on silk. And batick is a great one, too. I’m definitely looking forward to that.

Ada: And that one got a little spicy. I’m not going to lie.

Helen: That’s what I like about your podcast though. You guys don’t pull punches, you share your honest opinions and your personal experiences, and it’s so interesting and valuable to listen to, and it’s, yeah. Yeah, it’s tough work, too, to share that stuff sometimes. So thank you for doing that.

Caroline: Okay. Let’s dig into some specific episodes of the Asian Sewist Collective podcast. Uh, you have a great two-parter on cultural appropriation. So I was wondering if you could give a definition of cultural appropriation for our listeners.

Ada: Anybody who already listens to our podcast is probably sick of hearing me talk about cultural appropriation because I talk about it on Instagram, too. But here is the short definition of cultural appropriation. It’s the unacknowledged or inappropriate adoption of the customs, practices, ideas, et cetera, typically of a non-dominant people or society by members of another and typically more dominant people or society.

And the way that we like to explain it is we actually borrow the three piece framework from Emi Ito who’s @Llittle_Kotos_Closet on Instagram. And in her post and open letter to white makers and designers who are inspired by the kimono and Japanese culture, she outlines those three P’s as power, profit, and people.

And so power comes first because, in that definition, there’s always a power dynamic of a more dominant culture taking from another culture that’s historically been oppressed or marginalised. Profit, because when someone does that, they’re typically profiting. We all live in a capitalist society. And often the person profiting is not of the origin culture or community. And people because the people of the origin cultures almost always get erased in this process.

So an example would be wearing a cultural garment as a costume. So one of the examples we brought up in our episodes, uh, is wearing the qipao cheongsam as a prom dress or using a cultural object as a prop or naming or using cultural garments or terms to describe something that isn’t that actual thing. And in the episodes, we, kind of, do a deep dive on all of this and talk about how it really seems harmless cultural appropriation, but it does uphold a structure that harms people like me and Nicole where it exoticizes and fetishizes us and makes us targets of terrible things like bullying, street harassment, violence, and all of the terrible things that we see in the news, unfortunately, nowadays.

Helen: Yeah. And I want to encourage our listeners to go and listen to both of the episodes because we’re not going to have a chance to do a deep dive on the subject today, but they’re such great episodes. And I so appreciated you putting yourself out there and talking about this hot button topic in the sewing community in the last couple of years and explaining it really well and really giving a lot of perspective in those episodes. So I think our listeners will get a lot out of that, so please do go listen. But one of the things that, kind of, comes up for people is what can sewists do to avoid cultural appropriation in their personal sewing practices?

Ada: Ooh, that’s a hard one. I think because in the podcast we try not to be, like, the cultural appropriation police. I hate using that term, but I have no other better way to describe it. Like, we’re not trying to make the decision for you, especially if it doesn’t have to do with either of our cultures. But I think what sewists can do is, kind of, challenge themselves to think a little more critically when they are looking at patterns or looking at designs and even fabric, for example.

Just, you know, ask yourself before you buy something or make something, is this from my culture? Is it from someone else’s culture? If it is in someone else’s culture, am I doing it in a way that is respectful to that culture? Or am I doing the whole power, profit, and people thing where I am profiting from someone else’s culture and taking from it because I can. And I think just adding that little step into our decision making process when we’re making, it’s not necessarily something that comes up naturally, I think for most people, but adding that little step of consideration, I think really does help folks have more deep connections, I think, to what they’re making and also to their making process.

Caroline: Mhm.

Nicole: I think that part of the cultural appropriation discussion also should include how to handle discussions of a cultural appropriation. Because I think that particularly as sewists, we are dealing with a long history of clothing or other tech-, sewing related techniques, and we can’t necessarily know everything. So yes, kind of, having your radar up and being more mindful when you are selecting your fabric print or your pattern and, sort of, investigating to the extent that you’re even aware you need to investigate, you know, your, your motivations or the history behind what you’re working on right? We’re not investigating the history of the t-shirt here, but there are obvious, you know, cultural markers that we should be looking out for.

But on the other side of that, one of the more difficult parts of cultural appropriation and the conversation around it is addressing it when there’s a question about whether a person has already done it. So this is the other side. We’ve already, perhaps we chose to do something, uh, we examined it, we chose to do something because we felt like it was not cultural appropriation. Or you just did it, and someone else is saying, um, excuse me, this is, this appears to be cultural appropriation. Whether it’s a person from the culture who is being harmed or an ally or a co-conspirator who is trying to help the culture who is being harmed by the act.

And the biggest thing for me is us and other people in the creative space, not becoming automatically defensive. When somebody says, hey, can we talk about the impact of this garment on this particular culture? I think, oftentimes, the reaction is defensive immediately. It’s um, no, I know a Filipino person and they said, it’s fine.

I’m, like, well, part of the cultural appropriation discussion is being open to listening to more than one person. Um, no single person is going to be representative of a culture. But saying, okay, can you help me understand what you mean by this? How have I harmed you? Or instead of being dismissive and sometimes rude and sometimes hostile. So it’s, there’s the avoidance part, but sometimes you don’t know what you don’t know.

So there still has to be understanding and discourse, respectful discourse, on the other side of it as well. And I think for my part, I can’t speak for Ada, I think the defensiveness is what really halts the productive conversation around, you know, community learning on this subject.

Caroline: Mhm. Yeah. And I think as members of the sewing community, you know, being allies and calling this out when we see it is important, but also hanging back and letting those voices be heard of the people that are being affected by this cultural appropriation is important.

If somebody is speaking out, don’t automatically come to the defence of your white friend because maybe you have a friend who said it was okay. And really trying to listen, I think, is so important and understand, you know, that it’s not a time for our voice to be heard as, as white people, you know, but, yeah, it’s such a great episode, and you all dive really deep into this. So again, we want to encourage our listeners to go and check out this episode because you do dive a lot deeper into this topic over there. Um, so we’ll link that up in the show notes.

And maybe let’s move on and talk about another episode that we loved, that we also touched on already in, um, this interview, but you made an episode on imposter syndrome and sewing, and I’d love to know just a little definition of imposter syndrome for our listeners, if you could give that to us.

Nicole: Absolutely. Generally, imposter syndrome looks like somebody who believes that they have fooled the rest of the world into thinking that they are more competent than they actually are. So in the episode, we talked about how some psychologists think that imposter syndrome should actually be renamed, perceived fraudulence, because generally speaking, these feelings that we have about ourselves, that we’re fooling the world, that we’re not as great as we are, um, they’re unjustified. So the word imposter implies that the individual is actually a fraud and has, you know, defrauded everybody. But obviously, they’re not.

So imposter syndrome in sewing, you know, can manifest in a lot of different ways, especially with social media. So us putting pictures online and people saying, wow, that’s a really great job. But at the end of the day, you get mad that you think, like, oh no, they actually think that I’m really good at this, but I see this flaw and that flaw, and they don’t actually know how terrible I am at sewing. So that’s what imposter syndrome looks like. It is important to note that when we talk about imposter syndrome, it’s not a medical or psychological diagnosis, it’s more of a social construct or phenomena that, that we are all becoming more aware of and having conversations about.

Helen: And how does imposter syndrome intersect with Asian identity in your guys’s experience?

Nicole: So for me, I think that, and I can only speak from, from my experience, my own identity, I think imposter syndrome manifests itself from something that I learned growing up about how we are not meant to celebrate ourselves. And we are not in my, in my family in particular, I won’t generalise for all Filipino people, but there’s a strong feeling or ethos that you do hard work, you get results and that’s, what’s expected.

So if I do really well, but maybe I am feeling like I didn’t do very well, um, or if I did something and I’m really proud of it, but I shouldn’t be really proud of it. I think that’s how for me, imposter syndrome gets mixed up in that. It’s about how I see myself, um, in relation to what other people see in me.

Ada: I think if you listen to the episode, you’ll hear that I’m pretty uncomfortable during most of it, and it’s probably because I guess I don’t really feel like I have it is probably the best way to explain it. And there was a Harvard Business Review article called “Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome” that I would recommend anybody read, but basically, it challenges the whole concept of imposter syndrome because it points out all of these other things that are systemic racism, classism, xenophobia, and all there and all these other biases that can cause us to feel certain ways in certain situations.

And I think I identify more with that then with necessarily calling my feelings or experiences imposter syndrome. And I definitely, like, that is something that I think comes from a place of privilege, for sure. Like, I am a east Asian woman who, I was born and raised in the States and, you know, relatively upwardly mobile, I guess, the best way to summarise. And I work in finance and tech. And so in all these situations, like, it never felt like I was a fraud. It just felt like I had all these other slights against me. And therefore, I think when it comes to even sewing and crafting, like, I never had that kind of experience personally.

Helen: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And I really appreciated that point you made in the episode about this blanket statement of imposter syndrome, erasing all of these other important things that are happening and dismissing them, and that can be really harmful. So that was such an interesting perspective that you brought to the table. And again, we encourage our listeners to go and listen. More listening for y’all today. But I wonder what advice you might give to sewists who are feeling like they have imposter syndrome or like they don’t belong in the sewing community or elsewhere.

Nicole: I think I would start with you do belong here, and we welcome you here. Um, I wish that that’s a message that could be said and felt at every single person’s core and anyone who has ever felt like they don’t belong. But with regard to, you know, if you’re, if you’re feeling like a fraud, you know, find your people, find people who really you can talk with online, people who are encouraging of you, and then maybe take a tiny leap of faith and believe them when they say you’re doing a really great job.

For me, I had to really flip a switch to, well, no, very slowly and painfully flip a switch to believing what people say, you know, to say, rather than dismissing a compliment or, uh, a comment about how skilled I am, you know, not just saying, oh, you’re just being really nice, but absorbing it and allowing yourself to feel, you know, appreciated for what you do. And that, it’s a tiny leap of faith to say, I believe what they’re saying is true. And over and over again, surround yourself with those types of people who will uplift you.

There will be people who will give you unsolicited advice and things that are not, you know, productive to your wellbeing with regard to sewing. So, you know, you can set them aside and really surround yourself with folks that you trust already to continue to lift you up, and then believe them, just believe them.

Caroline: That’s great advice. You two often ask your guests how their Asian identity intersects with and influences their sewing practice. So we wanted to ask each of you the same question. Um, Nicole, do you want to start us off?

Nicole: Yeah, for me, it is a very direct connection between the practice of sewing and the exploration of my identity. Growing up, I was a part of, so I, for context, I was born in America. My parents immigrated from the Philippines and then my grandparents came after that. So I grew up in a household where I always felt torn between, like, my American identity and my Filipino identity. And I did Filipino school. I learned cultural dances. I put on these awful, garish outfits. That’s what I thought they were growing up. These, like, big sleeves and plaid and wrap around skirts. And I hated it.

My nineties, American-loving jean/ sneakers girl, growing up, like, rejected it, you know? I wanted to be American. I didn’t want to, I didn’t want to look Filipino. I just wanted to be like everyone else. So lots of complex feelings there. Um, but when I started to learn how to sew, so, this was just a couple of years ago, I am at a point in my life where there’s maybe a little bit of regret for behaving like that as a child, but the balance is more toward being really excited about rediscovering my connection to my Philippine heritage.

So we did, during the Cultural Appropriation Episode Part Two, I talked about how, like, upset I was about the Great British Sewing Bee, having taken a Filipino garment called the terno, which there’s a longer history there, and appropriating it, in my opinion. And it’s been through learning how to make that specific garment that I wore growing up with these cultural dances that I thought was the cheesiest thing ever, but learning how to, how artisans who create these designs make them and trying and failing and, and getting a little bit better each time on how to make this design.

Uh, something that’s newer for me, so it’s the terno sleeve, you may have heard me talk about this, something that’s newer for me is this realisation that the terno is beautiful and distinct. And I am looking forward to continuing to hone that craft over my lifetime, but I want to start looking at some of the traditional garments that were made during pre-Spanish colonial Philippines time.

Would I ever have cared about any of this if I hadn’t started sewing? Honestly, probably not, but being able to explore the history of my ancestors and my people through the garments that they make, the fabric that they use, the weave styles that they, that they do has been a really wonderful part of my sewing journey that I’m grateful that I get to share with other people as well. So there’s a pretty direct correlation between my Asian identity and my sewing and what I hope for it to evolve into in the future.

Helen: Oh, that is amazing. Thank you so much for sharing. Ada, how about yourself?

Ada: I guess that’s a little different for me because I think, unlike Nicole, I, I wouldn’t say I always embraced my identity growing up. Definitely, I can relate to wanting to assimilate in many times and parts of my life. Um, but I think I always grew up being taught to be and then learning how to be very proud of being Taiwanese. And I think that just, kind of, carries a lot of things that I do. And so when I think about my sewing, there are certain things that I do and certain decisions that I make that I think definitely stem from my cultural background and heritage.

And then there’s, like, things that I haven’t been able to explore yet that I want to do because of my identity. And so I think of things like, um, there’s that meme or stereotype that I think goes around sewing Instagram every few weeks or months where it’s, like, is this a tin of cookies or is it a tin of sewing notions? Like, I think almost any culture, um, or any immigrant family can probably relate to that, just, like, repurposing things like that.

But I think deeply and in Taiwanese culture and anybody, kind of, in the Chinese speaking role, it’s like, you probably, it wasn’t a cookie tin so much as, like, the mooncake tin that would come or the box that would come because it was fancy packaging. And it’s, it’s little things like that that I think come up.

And then there’s, like, the fact that I didn’t know until I started sewing that there was such a vibrant community, I think, in Taiwan of people who do sew, and, like, a whole fabric district that, you know, I’ve been back many times in my life and been lucky to have been able to do that. But I had no idea, you know, knowing Taipei as well as I do that, there was a whole district that I had missed until I got on sewing Instagram and started connecting with people. And so one day when I’m allowed to go back, I hope to, kind of, explore that more deeply.

And then I think it’s, it comes up sometimes when we’re doing episodes, right? Like, the history of quipao cheongsam. I didn’t know about the whole history of the garment. I own one from my mom, but I, A: don’t really fit into it because she was very tiny at the time. And B: it’s not really something I, I necessarily want to be wearing outside right now.

And so, yeah, I think there’s still a lot of unpacking personally for me to do, but it is something that I do notice from time to time just, kind of, pops up here and there, and you, kind of, have to go like, oh, that was unexpected. Maybe I should, like, journal on that or, or think about that a little bit deeper sometime.

Helne: I mean, you’re both so in the early days still of, not only your sewing journey, but also your podcasting journey, and I just can’t wait to continue to follow you both and, and see where it takes you and watch you do all of these explorations and unpacking that you’re talking about.

And thank you again for taking us along on the ride with you. I wonder if making the podcast has changed your personal sewing practices at all for either of you.

Nicole: I think, for me, something that happens a lot, and you probably have heard me say this a lot, is that I always want to try something new that we’ve talked about or learned about. And so, I don’t know if this is, like, something people want to hear, but, uh, my practice is chaotic now because I was content with just, like, trying to figure out how to sew. But I’m learning about this whole wide world of wonderful types of sewing and garments and fabrics that I want to do at all.

So I have a little bit of a hard time focusing on what I want to do because every time I talk to someone, I think that is wonderful. I’m going to be a quilter now.

Helen: Oh. I got totally sucked in by Bhiravi’s quilting as well.

Nicole: Yeah. Or I’m going to make bags now. This is what I’m going to do. Oh, silk? I’m going to make with some silk, too. This is going to be so good. So I don’t know if that’s the answer you were looking for, if I even answered your question, but, uh, that’s, what’s been happening with me.

Helen: Oh, I can relate, we also delay episodes sometimes because Caroline and I feel like we don’t have enough personal experience to cover something like shirring, for example. We’ve been wanting to talk about that for years, but neither of us can, like, find the time to make a shirred garment first. We need to practise before we talk about it.

Ada: I’m staring at the five spools of thread I have that are elastic thread that I bought explicitly for shirring that I have not done yet because of the same thing.

Caroline: I have, I have the spools and the fabric and the pattern. It’s, like, oh my gosh.

Helen: How about you, Ada? Has it impacted your sewing practice at all? Is it chaotic as well?

Ada: I honestly think it’s kept me, it, maybe not chaotic, but it’s kept me more accountable because at the start of every episode we ask each other what we are working on and having that, kind of, has kept me accountable to making progress on my projects because I don’t want to share that I’m working on the same thing. I mean, it’s totally fine. Like, you should sew at your own pace, but me, personally, I’m still in that phase where I’m, like, just good enough to make things that I decide, like, oh, that’s never going to make it out a house or, oh yeah. That’s, like, fine. I’ll just wear it.

And so having that accountability of knowing that we’re, we’re going to record I need to have things in my project queue has helped me. And it’s definitely also helped me move through that queue because there are some projects that I cut out way far in advance, which is what everyone tells you not to do. And then I don’t end up sewing it for months, or even like, I just finished a dress a year after I cut it out. Maybe, partially, because my serger sucked and I got a new one. And then I was bias binding all these seams, and it was a whole whole saga. But I think that having that layer is helpful for me, at least, in terms of, like, how I work. Like, I know that all these garments are mostly for me, 95% of the time.

But it also, like Nicole said, has gotten me interested in all these other things, like sewing a quilt. I wouldn’t have ever attempted it had we not had Bhiravi on. And she had said, you can do it. You can make this quilt. And then, of course, as I’m halfway through making her quilt, I’m like, wow, this is only a baby quilt and, like, how many blocks more do I have to go?

Caroline: It’s a process.

Helen: Yeah. It’s so fun to be inspired by the guests though. And I’m constantly trying to resist the urge to pick up new hobbies, like beading or quilting, but sometimes you just can’t, you just have to go for it.

Well, we’re almost done here, but we just have a couple more questions. First of all, what advice would you give to someone out there who wants to start their own podcast or maybe just their own space for people who are like them?

Ada: You can do it. I know we were just joking about that, but you can definitely do it. There are so many tools out there for podcasting now that make it really easy and simple. And honestly it doesn’t have to be as finessed as we have or with this, kind of, complicated process of involving all these people.

We have a whole team of people because we wanted to start a community and Grubin quite honestly knew we couldn’t do it without help, but you can always just hop onto record by yourself, even on your phone as long as you have, like, the mic near your mouth to make a podcast episode and share your thoughts and ideas.

The biggest thing that we learned is, that gave us, I guess, encouragement in the beginning was that the vast majority of podcasts never make it past one episode. So by the time we were working on, like, the second or third episode, we were, like, we’re fine. We’ve already made it past the really hard part, the first episode.

And if you’re building a community, whether it’s podcast-based or not, I think doing a little bit of work on understanding who you want to reach and who you want to build that community for and where they all are already helps you, kind of, have some more direction and gets you further along that journey than you might think.

And you might not have to work as hard as you think you might have to in order to start something. So, for example, we’re really active on Instagram because we both already knew that the sewing community on Instagram was super active, had the people that we wanted to find and engage with and build community with. And that not every platform out there was going to offer that. And that building something from scratch, for example, would be pretty difficult to get people onto.

And so that, kind of, pretty easily helped us decide, okay, this is where we’re going to focus most of our time when it’s not on podcasting. We’re going to engage with people on Instagram, share information, share clips, and start conversations there to, kind of, build that momentum so that people now send us emails and send us audio messages, which is fantastic. And we’re still, kind of, trying to figure out what to do with it all.

Helen: More mail bags.

Ada: Probably, yes.

Helen: I love getting audio messages from our listeners because it’s such a one-way street sometimes it feels like. We’re talking into the mic, and we don’t get to hear their voices in return, so that’s always special. Please call us.

Caroline: It’s hard with our voicemail line though cause it’s not, like, they don’t email us an audio message. We just get a voice. There’s no way for us to respond.

Helen: It’s true.

Caroline: Sometimes we’re, like, should we call them back? Like, we can’t, we don’t have your email. Um, but no, it is so fun to hear from everyone.

Helen: Nicole, do you have anything to add, as far as advice for folks?

Nicole: I just followed whatever Ada was doing.

Helen: Be more like, Ada. Perfect.

Nicole: I don’t have the same skill set or the PR, like, particular organisational skills and drive that Ada has. So I am listed as a co-founder, but none of this would have been possible without Ada. So I’m like, listen to Ada.

Helen: The thing is the Ada’s of the world need the Nicole’s of the world. It is definitely a symbiotic relationship.

Ada: Yes. Oh my gosh. You should’ve seen when Nicole and I were trying to learn TikTok. I mean, I would say I’m still trying to learn. I don’t know if Nicole has given up or not, but we were, we were like, this is, this is, no, this is probably not where we need to be right now or nor is it a good use of our time and energy.

Helen: Oh gosh, I can relate to this so hard. We’ll get there. Maybe TikTok 2023? We’ll see.

Caroline: Well, where can listeners find each of you online? Remind us again, and also, uh, where can they find the Asian Sewist Collective.

Nicole: You can find me @NicoleAngelineSews on Instagram.

Ada: And you can find me @I.Hope.Sew on Instagram. And the collective is @AsianSewistCollective on Instagram and AsianSewistCollective.com.

Helen: Perfect. Make sure you subscribe in your podcast apps.

Caroline: Yes, go do it now. And thank you so much for chatting with us, Ada and Nicole. It was so much fun making this crossover episode with you. Thanks so much for coming on the show.

Ada & Nicole: Thanks for having us.

Helen: Bye.

Caroline: That’s it for today’s episode of Love to Sew. You can find me, Caroline, at BlackbirdFabrics.com and Helen at HelensClosetPatterns.com! And we’re recording today in beautiful British Columbia, Canada.

Helen: Go to LoveToSewPodcast.com to find our show notes. They’re filled with links and pictures from the episode. And if you would like to get in touch with us, you can always send us an email at hello@LoveToSewPodcast.com.

Caroline: And if you love Love to Sew and want more, you can sign up for our Patreon! For $5 a month, you get a full-length bonus episode and weekly behind-the-scenes pics. And for $10 a month, you get all that PLUS a mini-episode focused on sewing techniques and 15% off codes for Helen’s Closet and Blackbird Fabrics! Patreon is the best way to support us so that we can keep making quality sewing content. So please, go to patreon.com/LoveToSew for more info.

Helen: Thank you to our amazing podcast team. Lisa Ruiz is our creative assistant. Jordan Moore is our editor. And Margaret Wakelee is our transcriber. And thank you for listening. We will talk to you next week.

Related Episodes