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Transcript:

Caroline: We are recording today on the traditional, ancestral, and unceded territories of the Coast Salish and Kwakwaka’wakw peoples, including Tsleil-Waututh, Squamish, Musqueam, and K’ómoks first nations. 

Helen: Hello, and welcome to Love to Sew. I’m Helen, the designer behind Helen’s Closet Patterns. 

Caroline: And I’m Caroline, the owner of Blackbird Fabrics. 

Helen: We’re two sewing buds who love to sew our own clothes and want to encourage you on your sewing journey, too. 

Caroline: Join us for today’s interview with Terrance Williams.

Helen: Hello, Terrance. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. 

Terrance: Thank you so much for having me. 

Helen: We’re so excited to chat with you. Can you please introduce yourself to our listeners? 

Terrance: My name is Terrance Williams. I am a small business owner and sewer, designer, kind of, a jack-of-all-trades. 

Helen: Wonderful. And we can’t wait to chat with you all about your business, but first off, can you tell us where you’re from?

Terrance: I am currently in Dallas, Texas. I was born and raised in Pennsylvania, and I moved down here a year and a half ago. 

Helen: And tell us a bit about your sewing journey. We love hearing how our guests learned to sew and when they learned to sew. 

Terrance: I’m a self-taught sewer. I learned how to sew, I would say, I was a junior in college. I had been sketching and designing clothing, and I had told my family that I wanted to learn how to sew, so my sister bought me my very first sewing machine. Um, it was a Singer, and she gave me a gift card to Jo-Ann’s, and that was really how it started. Just through tutorials online and my mom’s best friend. She also taught me some, a few things, a few tips and tricks because she knew how to sew, but really it was just me learning on my own.

Helen: Aw, that’s so sweet. Shout out to your sister. I mean, it sounds like she gave you a machine that changed your whole life. 

Terrance: She did. She is my biggest supporter, and she saw so much potential. Even today, she’s my biggest supporter. So she fully believes in my dreams and helping and supporting me in that way. So I really appreciate her.

Helen: Aw, that’s so wonderful. 

Caroline: Well, you have such a vibrant and beautiful personal style. We just feel energized whenever we see your outfit posts on Instagram. So, for our listeners out there who might not know you, can you describe your personal style for us? 

Terrance: My personal style is really bold and colorful. I love really fun prints. Sequins are probably my favorite thing in the whole entire world. Um, if it’s not glittery and colorful, then I really don’t want it. Um, that’s, that’s pretty much it. I really, I mean, I hate to subscribe to gender roles, but it is more girly and feminine, but that’s just, that’s just how I am. That’s just what I love. 

Caroline: Has that always been true for you? Or did you have, kind of, like, a journey to finding your personal style? Can you tell us a bit more about that journey? 

Terrance: It was definitely a journey. I was a late bloomer when it comes to fashion and discovering myself. It was only, I would say, like, 2014/15, when I really, kind of, developed my own personal style. I come from a really small, conservative town in Pennsylvania. I was the only black kid in my elementary school, and even through middle school and high school, there weren’t a lot of other black kids. So I’ve always kind of stood out and was different. So I spent a majority of my childhood just trying to fit in. So wearing the name brands that were cool back in the day, like Hollister and Abercrombie, everything from the sale rack, because I did not have a lot of money, and those clothes were really expensive. So I spent a lot of time just trying to fit in because my family, we were really poor, um, working paycheck to paycheck. So we didn’t really have a lot of money to go out and buy new expensive clothes. So a lot of the stuff I had was hand me downs, stuff from the thrift store, Kmart “blue light special” two pair of jeans that, you know, we just had to make work until we had a growth spurt and had to go out and get new ones. So really kind of utilizing what we had because we really didn’t have a lot. So now that I’m able to have a little bit more freedom and flexibility, and I’m not in that small town anymore, and I’m able to make and sew things myself, I really started coming into my own. When I moved to Dallas the first time, um, that was in 2014/2015, and I just had access to so many different stores and designers, and, um, that’s when I really started to develop my own style that I have now. But it’s been, uh, it’s been a process. 

Helen: So was the sewing machine that you got from your sister and your intro into this whole sewing world, was that the point in which you started dressing in more bright, colorful clothes? Like, did you discover sequins at that point, or would you, were you shopping off the rack for that stuff before? 

Terrance: I was shopping off the rack. I didn’t really get into designing clothes for myself until a few years ago. It was just something that I was always, kind of, timid and afraid to do. I was more comfortable with accessories, and that’s how I started my business, uh, with accessories, little bow ties and then wallets and clutches and purses and things like that. It wasn’t until about two years ago, two or three years ago, that I started really diving into clothing. First, for myself, and then, obviously, selling it to other people. So bright colors and sequins I’ve always liked them, but I was always afraid to, kind of, dive in, but it really, kind of, took off two or three years ago.

Helen: Yeah, and I bet we have some listeners out there who would love to wear more of the fabrics that you’re describing or maybe want to have a bit more of a bold personal style, but it can be challenging to put yourself out there in that way. So, what advice would you give to our listeners who are struggling to develop their personal style and wear what they want to wear with confidence?

Terrance: I get this a lot. A lot of people message me saying that they wish that they could wear the things that I wear, do the things that I do. And I always say, you can, you just have to not care what other people think and what other people say, and you have to live in your truth. That’s one of my mottoes and the things that I live by: living your truth. You have to wake up every day and love who you are. And growing up is a process and learning about yourself is a process, and it is just one day at a time. And it doesn’t even have to be a whole sequin, caftan dress. I get people who say, oh, I love your eye shadow, but I could never do blues and purples. And I’m like, just try it. Or even painting their nails, they say, Oh, I would love to do, like, a bright pink. Just try it. Just take a chance. If it makes you happy, then that’s all that matters. I truly do not care what other people say because at the end of the day, I’m happy.

Helen: And you have fabulous nails and eye shadow, so…

Terrance: Thank you!

Helen: I’m curious if you have more than one style mode. Cause I know that you do a lot of sewing for your business. So are you in, like, a t-shirt and sweatpants sometimes? Are you always in these beautiful caftans? 

Terrance: So, during quarantine, it’s definitely been athleisure. It’s definitely been sweatpants, sweatshirts, lots of, just, workout running gear because I really don’t go anywhere or do anything. So, that’s how it’s been. But when, before quarantine, I was definitely getting dressed up and putting makeup on and doing more and putting more of an effort into, into what I do. But even when I go out, before it wasn’t like I was wearing caftan, dresses and sequins and stuff all the time. Sometimes I just like to do a t-shirt and jeans, but my shoes are the thing that really stands out. So I have, you know, embellished shoes or sequins and rhinestones, and my jewelry and my accessories, that might be the thing that, that stands out. So I like to mix and match, but definitely, recently it’s been, I’ve been bumming it. 

Helen: That’s very relatable. I feel like the accessories thing is a good tip for people, too. Like a great way to experiment with a little bit more of a bold personal style, just with, like, a really cool shoe or a really amazing piece of statement jewelry. It’s a great way to kind of dip your toe. 

Terrance: Yeah. I’ve been telling my friends. They, he’s gay, and he’s very business suit attire, but he sees my shoes and how flashy they are, and he keeps saying like, I would love to, like, be more bold and do different things. And I’m like, just take one step at a time. Just little things, little accessories. You don’t have to have, like, a gold sequined shoe like I do, but you could get a shoe that has, like, a cool buckle or, you know, a belt that has some sort of embellishment or even a pin that you can put on your lapel. Just something small. You don’t have to dive in fully a hundred percent.

Caroline: That’s great advice. We would love to share on our socials this week some pictures of some of the amazing outfits that you’ve made for yourself. And I wonder if you could highlight for us some of your, maybe, favorite pieces that you’ve ever made? 

Terrance: Definitely my dusters. They are, kind of, the thing that has pushed my business to the next level. I have this white embroidered tulle duster that has really garnered a lot of attention. So that definitely is one. I think another thing is any of my caftan dresses, mainly the rainbow sequined one has been really popular. I have this gingham coord set that I made a few years ago that I really like. So it’s gingham shorts that’s, like, a light blue and white, and then a off the shoulder ruffle top that I made. I love that outfit. I think it’s so perfect for spring and summer. 

Helen: Ooh!

Caroline: So cool!

Helen: Those all sound dreamy. I love that. The sheer one that you’re talking about with the embroidered flowers, I notice it comes in like a black background, too. I don’t know if you still have that in stock, but…

Terrance: Yes, yes I do.

Helen: It’s gorgeous. 

Caroline: Helen’s doing some shopping right now.

Helen: I am looking at your shop right now. I mean, it’s just so beautiful, and it makes me wonder if you have any tips for our listeners about sewing with sheer fabrics because that can be a little intimidating. I’m sure working with those fabrics were. Like, how do you finish the seams? And how do you get, like, a nice finish on the outside when you’re working with something sheer like that?

Terrance: Patience. Patience is definitely key. Using the right needle size also is really important. Going slow and taking your time. Before, I was just doing a zigzag stitch to finish everything, but I was lucky enough to be given a serger, so now I’m able to serge the edges on the inside and the outside, or just a simple rolled hem. There are quite a few different ways that you can finish edges. Before, I really liked to leave the edges raw because I’d watched an interview with Marc Jacobs, and he said, there’s something really beautiful about having this beautifully constructed garment that you spend so much time and effort on and then leaving the edges raw. It just creates such a interesting and unique contrast that you don’t really see in fashion. And when I heard that quote, that really resonated with me. But, recently, I have started finishing the edges, um, just for something different and just from customer feedback. 

Helen: So don’t be too intimidated by those sheer fabrics.

Terrance: Right, right.

Helen: Yeah. You can figure it out. Okay. Let’s pivot a little bit and talk a bit more about your business cause we’ve been teasing it an awful lot, and it’s called Terrance Williams Designs if anyone wants to check it out. Can you tell our listeners a little bit more about your business, what you sell, and, maybe, how you got started?

Terrance: Yeah. So I make clothing and accessories that are ethically sourced and sustainably produced. And I do everything from headbands to caftan dresses, to dusters, capes, purses, zipper pouches, wristlets. I started on Etsy in 2014, and I started with bow ties and then went from bow ties to wallets, to zipper pouches, envelope clutches. I eventually outgrew the Etsy platform and wanted to do more and expand. And Etsy fees were getting really, really high, and it was getting really expensive, so I decided to launch my own website. So I launched Terrance Williams Designs last year, in February, right in the beginning of the pandemic which I didn’t even know was going to happen, but it’s been really, it’s been really good. It’s been really successful. The feedback has been amazing. Um, and I’m just really excited to keep growing and expanding. 

Caroline: Yeah. It’s been so fantastic to see your journey over the last year or so, and I would also love to know a little bit more about the sustainability piece of your business. And I guess my first question would just be, why did you decide to focus on sustainability? Why is that so important to you? 

Terrance: I’ve always really been interested in sustainability as far as the human rights aspect. I think when we think of sustainability, we really, a lot of people, only think of protecting the environment or saving the whales, but there are different aspects and pillars to sustainability, and one of them is human rights, and I’ve always been interested in human rights. I was originally supp-, going to go to law school. Um, that’s what I went to school for, took the LSATs, got into the Drexel summer program for law school, and decided not to go. I wanted to help refugees and asylum seekers seek asylum in different countries, but I just wasn’t really sure if I wanted to do law school. I really wasn’t sure if my heart was in it. So I had to think, how was I going to combine my love of fashion and fashion design with my love of human rights and helping people? So that’s when I, kind of, did the hybrid of my business, combining both of them. So I make the majority of everything. I recently did hire someone to help me sew headbands. But before that, and still now, I’m doing a majority of all the sewing. Um, I buy all the fabrics and source all the fabrics, and I make sure that they are, whether they come from Jo-Ann’s or whether they come from Spoonflower, I make sure that the fabrics, the factories are respecting human rights. So paying people a fair wage, um, making sure that they are working in safe conditions, that there’s no exploitation of labor, there’s no child labor. All of those things are really, really important to me. And then when it comes to fabrics, I really try to make sure that they are ethically sourced and sustainably made. And, I’m starting to expand more with that also really looking into recycled polyester or Tencel, organic cotton, bamboo fibers. I’m really excited for what the future holds with that. Um, but that’s the main thing, respecting human rights in fashion. 

Caroline: Yeah, and it does seem like you kind of take that sustainability through so many different aspects of your business which I think is so important when you’re making a statement like that. And, and the work that you do is so, so great. Are there any other, kind of, parts of your business where you are focusing on sustainability? Like, for example, with packaging and that kind of thing. 

Terrance: Yeah, everything from beginning to end. So not just how I source the fabrics, but the packaging. I use EcoEnclose, so they produce recycled packaging. So my mailers, they can be reused, and they’re also, you can recycle them. Even with, when it comes to shipping, I do USPS pickup, so I’m not running back and forth to the post office. The mailman is dropping off the mail, and he’s also taking all of the packages with him. So that cuts down on having to travel and producing CO2 emissions. Um, and I also have it set up on my website where 5% of total revenue is donated to different organizations that help remove CO2 from the atmosphere. So there are quite a few different things, even when it comes to sourcing the fabric, trying to use deadstock fabric is another way.

Caroline: Mhm. Yeah. And a lot of our listeners are, are sewists themselves, and they’re just kind of sewing as a hobby at home. Do you have any tips for sewists out there, how they can be more sustainable in their home sewing practice?

Terrance: I think utilizing the fabric that you have and not continuously buying more is one of the most important things that we can do. I know I’m definitely guilty of this. If you saw my fabric stash, I think you would faint. But the main thing when it comes to sustainability is, uh, reducing your waste and reducing your consumption. So tackle those projects that you have already, and use the fabric that you have instead of immediately going out and purchasing more. 

Helen: That makes a lot of sense. I feel like your shop is a great inspiration also. I mean, not to discourage anyone from buying your products, but a lot of these little projects would be great sewing projects for scraps, too. If people are interested in making their own headbands and bags and things like that. 

Terrance: Yes, definitely. I like that my items are really simple and accessible. They’re not complicated patterns or designs, but what makes them unique is the fact that they are sustainable and the fabric choices that I use. I think that is really what sets me apart from other people, but there are definitely things that other people can, can do on their own.

Helen: I feel like some of our listeners out there might be wondering how you, kind of, started this business. I mean, it just seems like a really approachable way to begin a business starting with accessories. You said you started on Etsy, and then you started growing the business and adding more products. So do you have any more advice for anyone else out there who’s interested in selling the goods that they make themselves? 

Terrance: Oh my gosh. So much advice. I have learned so much through trial and error and success and failure. I think the number one piece of advice that I have is just do it. Just start. It doesn’t have to be perfect. And I hear a lot of people say, well, I’m going to wait until I get this or wait until I have backdrops or wait until I have a better camera or I’m going to wait until I can offer more stuff. And I always say just start. When I started, I didn’t have a lot of money to start my business, but I started it anyway. I didn’t have fancy backdrops. I didn’t have a fancy camera. I was shooting everything on my iPhone and just using… We, I had a wooden porch when I lived home, uh, back home in York. And that’s what I would shoot my products on. I would just lay them, flat lay them, on the wooden porch and take the pictures with my iPhone, and I would edit them and put them on Etsy, and people were still buying them. So I think it’s just really important to put yourself out there, and just do it. And you don’t necessarily need a lot of capital and investment. If you have it, that’s great and amazing, but it’s not a necessity. I think a lot of people think when they start, they need to have 50, 60, a hundred items to sell. But if you just have one item that comes in a few different colorways, and that’s what you start out with, at least you’re starting somewhere. So my biggest piece of advice is just to start.

Helen: That is really good. And I feel like making things to order is another way that you can not have to have all this stuff in stock. And I know that’s what you have previously done. Are you still making everything to order? 

Terrance: I still am making everything to order. It’s really interesting. Because I feel that we are in the time of fast fashion, and people expect to order something and, like, Amazon, they’re going to get it, you know, two days later, the same day. So it’s been really interesting running a slow fashion business where it takes maybe a week or two for people to get their items and just how nice and gracious people are about it and how understanding they are. But it also really helps with keeping stock levels in control as far as fabric because I only buy what is selling. Um, so there’s not a lot of excess. I don’t have a lot of excess material around. 

Caroline: Yeah. I’m sure that would be really helpful to kind of keep your operations really lean with the made to order model. I wonder if there have been any challenges that you faced with the made to order model. 

Terrance: Last year, during July, was when my business really took off. I was in a few BuzzFeed articles. A few influencers on YouTube had bought my stuff from my website and mentioned me in their YouTube videos, and they had over, you know, a million subscribers. And then I was popping up on a bunch of different Black-owned business lists on Twitter and Instagram, and people were tagging me. So, I went from doing, you know, 40-50 orders to 500-600 orders in the span of a day. Uh, it just exploded. So I was not ready, and I really don’t think anyone could prepare or know. I had always hoped that my business would be at that point and be at this point. But I always thought, like, I would have a team. I would have a warehouse. I would have things set up, but it’s now, and it’s real. So dealing with the influx of orders and having to make every single one last year was really, really overwhelming. And I’m glad. I’m so happy for the support and I’m, but I’m also glad that it’s over because it was a lot. It was a lot to handle. 

Caroline: Yeah. What has that been like since that, kind of, influx of orders? Have you found that, you know, you’ve come to, sort of, a level that’s more manageable and, for lack of a better word, sustainable for you personally to, kind of, handle? 

Terrance: Yeah, it’s definitely leveled out, and it’s definitely a lot more sustainable and manageable which I really, really appreciate. I think that July was just an anomaly. I went from doing, I mean, I did, I think it was, like, $7,000 within the span of, like, an hour. It was, it was insane. It just, it just took off. I had never seen that much traffic, that many sales, even on my Etsy. So having to deal with that and come to terms with that and figure out a plan. It definitely forced me to be more organized and more on top of inventory, figure out ways to streamline my process to not get backlogged again. So it was definitely a blessing, and I’m glad that things have definitely mellowed out now. I’m still doing really, really well, hitting my sales calls, and doing everything that I want to do, but it’s not at that, that level.

Helen: Yeah. Scary level.

Caroline: Well that’s, I mean, it’s good to hear. Obviously, you know, the success is very well deserved, and I think that it’s nice that it’s, sort of, tapered to a level that’s manageable for you. One thing that I wonder is, I mean, with all of the sales that you’ve made, there must be so many people out there wearing your gorgeous accessories and garments. How does that feel to see people wearing those things and sharing those things online? 

Terrance: It is one of the most humbling experiences. The fact that someone would take a chance to trust my business and then purchase the items and then post about it on social media or write me emails. I get a lot of messages from people, whether it’s plus size people who write me and say, you know, I can never find things that fit or that make me feel beautiful, but I bought one of your caftan dresses or bought one of your dusters, and it fits me perfectly, and I feel beautiful. I’ve just had someone, the other week, buy a bunch of headbands. And they said, you know, I’m recovering from cancer, and my hair is slowly growing back, and I just wanted your headbands to help make me feel beautiful. Um, I have a whole Black artists and Black Lives Matter headband, uh, that people have just been really, really loving. And not just Black people are buying it, but a lot of white people are buying it, and they have been messaging me saying, you know, I feel really great that I can be an ally and help support in this way. So, it’s just been really surreal. And I, I, with every order, I still get really emotional. You know, I just hit over 2,000 orders the other week, and I was crying my eyes out. The fact that over 2,000 people have bought from me and supported me and loved my items and just taken a chance on something that was just a dream, just something that I’ve always wanted to do. It’s, it’s a very humbling, humbling experience. 

Caroline: Aw, that’s so wonderful. 

Helen: Yeah. So sweet to hear and really encouraging again for anyone who might be just starting out in their business to hear that you’ve hit these amazing milestones and that, you know, you’re still just feeling amazing about it. And you’re just excited about all of the customers buying your garments and your accessories. I can imagine that would be so fun to see. 

Terrance: Yeah, I don’t ever want to lose that feeling, that excitement, or that connection with people. I try to be as relatable and down to earth as I can. So I think that really resonates with people. 

Helen: Yeah, and I’m sure making things to order, too, like if people can give measurements and then you’re making things to fit perfectly for them, that gives you even more of a connection with your customers. 

Terrance: Right. Because it is specifically made for them, made to order for them. So it, it really helps establish a bond and a connection because it’s a piece that’s uniquely theirs. 

Caroline: Yeah, and we also love that you describe your products as genderless and inclusive, and I wonder why making genderless and inclusive garments and accessories is important to you? 

Terrance: Well, I think, for me, I’ve always been interested in just different clothing styles and different clothing items but have never taken the chance until recently, like I talked about before, in wearing those items because they were deemed, you know, for a man or for a woman or whatever. And, for me, it’s just, you know, cotton or polyester or sequins. It doesn’t necessarily need a gender. Anyone can wear a dress or anyone can wear a skirt. It shouldn’t just be regulated to one gender. So, for me, that’s the style that I developed. I’m not necessarily wearing a caftan dress, and it’s a women’s caftan dress. It’s just a caftan dress to me. Anyone can wear it. It was really important for my brand to be as inclusive as possible, size inclusive but also gender inclusive. Right now, we are seeing a huge wave of people being comfortable in their skin and in their life and expressing themselves how they want to express themselves, and it doesn’t necessarily align with being a man or a woman. The trans community deserves representation, and they deserve a spot and they deserve a, a clothing line and accessories that they feel comfortable in. Non-binary people, it’s the same thing. Anywhere that people fall on the spectrum, they deserve that. And I think a lot of clothing retailers still are not at that point yet. It’s still very man/woman sections. We get a few gender neutral lines. I know H&M has a few gender neutral lines. And Beyoncé’s Ivy Park came out with gender neutral. And Adidas has a few gender neutral things. So we’re getting there, but it’s not at the place that it needs to be. And I’m just hoping that I can, kind of, help be the catalyst for other small businesses to make things more gender neutral. 

Caroline: Yeah, it’s so true. I mean, at the end of the day, clothing doesn’t have a gender, right? 

Terrance: Right.

Caroline: Anyone can wear whatever they want to wear. And I think that your business really sets an example for that fact. You know, that anyone can wear whatever they want and hopefully, other businesses will follow suit. And maybe one day we’ll live in a world where gender isn’t assigned to clothing, and we can just go into a store anyone can feel welcome to wear and buy whatever they want, you know.

Terrance: I hope so. I hope so, but, and I think the more people advocate and more people say that that’s what they want. It’ll happen. 

Caroline: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Terrance, you have such an uplifting presence and even on your website, you have that slogan: love, light, positivity. And you just radiate that, and I would love to know how you keep that going through life’s challenges and setbacks.

Terrance: It is a process. It is something that I work on every day. I’m very open about my mental health and struggling with depression and anxiety. So I don’t necessarily have the luxury of having too many bad days. I remember I had just moved back from Texas the first time, and I was staying with my sister for a few months until I got back on my feet, and I was in the spare bedroom and I was just crying because I was so upset that I had to move back in with her, and I was so embarrassed and she came in, and I said, I just don’t know what I’m going to do. And she hugged me, and she said, this is what you’re going to do. You’re going to take today to cry. I’ll give you one day to cry and be upset, but then you are going to wake up tomorrow, pull yourself out of bed, and you’re going to start over. And you’re going to figure it out. And so I’ve taken that motto with me since then. I have days that are difficult. Um, I think we all do, especially during this pandemic being away from friends and family and, uh, self isolating, it’s been really hard. But I give myself a day to maybe feel down in the dumps, and then the next day I’m up, and I’m at ‘em, and I’m doing what I need to do. Staying in constant communication with my friends and family, texting, calling, FaceTiming getting excited about my business, um, interacting with people on social media, seeing what other people are creating. It’s really easy to kind of fall into a depressive state. So having to be active, to be positive, and spread that positivity is really important to me. And also, I just think, there’s so much negativity in the world, and there’s so much negative stuff that’s happening, and people just are so cruel. And I believe that energy is transferable and the same energy that you put out is the same energy that people feel. So why would you want to go around with negative energy? I really feel that you should walk around with positive energy because if you smile and you’re happy, it might make someone else smile. It might make someone else happy. And I think that’s the most important thing, um, radiating that positive energy and just helping other people see the positive in life.

Caroline: Yeah. And you do such a, such a great job with that. Even just, you know, visiting your Instagram or website or YouTube channel, you really do radiate that positivity in that light. So thank you. 

Terrance: Thank you. I try, I try. I try not to have it be, like, fake, like fake positivity. I think we see a lot of that on social media. So I really try to make it genuine because it is genuine. But along with the happiness and the positive, I also talk about the struggles and, like, how I’m overcoming them and the good, the bad, the wins, the losses, everything. 

Caroline: Yeah.

Terrance: I’m just an open book. 

Caroline: Yeah. Yeah. It really, it really does come through us as, you know, coming from a genuine place. And I think it is so important to have that balance and that, you know, not having, you know, Instagram being a highlight reel and really showing the vulnerability, too. This also makes me think of another story that you shared on Instagram about some advocacy work that you did. You advocated for diversity and inclusion from Jo-Ann Fabrics, and you succeeded. And, um, I think it’s such a great story. Would you mind sharing that story a little bit with our listeners? 

Terrance: Yeah, so I am a frequent Jo-Ann Fabric shopper, and I was really disappointed that they hadn’t released a statement after George Floyd and his murder. And it was not just Jo-Ann’s, it was a bunch of other companies, but I was really close to Jo-Ann’s again, because I shop there so frequently, so I had just been spamming everything. I had been spamming their Instagram comment section, YouTube comment section, Facebook comment section, just letting them know how disappointed I was. And I didn’t hear anything, didn’t hear anything. So I was like, what if I try to reach out to the CEO? So I Googled the CEO of Jo-Ann’s, and it came up, and he was on LinkedIn. So I took a chance, and I messaged him on LinkedIn, and I let him know how I felt. I let him know that I was really disappointed in their lack of a response. And I let him know that specifically Black people spend, probably spend millions of dollars in their store, and they deserve at least a statement that says Black Lives Matter or Jo-Ann’s doesn’t support racism. Something. And he actually responded which I thought was so amazing that he was open to that feedback. And he said he absolutely agreed. And we had a really good phone conversation, two phone conversations. And from those phone conversations, he set me up with HR and different departments at Jo-Ann’s which really got the ball rolling. I had a list of, kind of, demands that I wanted ,things that I wanted to be seen done. Um, so more diversity on their Instagram feed, in their marketing. Um, I wanted them to, you know, at least release a statement, condemning racism. I wanted to know about their executive boards and who occupies those positions, the makeup men/women/minorities. How can we get more people in those positions? So it was, it was a lot, um, but they were completely open to the feedback, and they were really responsive. And they admitted that they had messed up and did not handle the situation the way that they should have, but they wanted to really fix it. And they have, and it’s been so amazing to see. There’s definitely a lot more work that needs to be done, but I’m really proud of the changes that have been happening. So their Instagram feed is definitely more diverse, along with their social media, along with their marketing. They are highlighting different holidays, so not just traditional Easter and Christmas but. you know, Kwanzaa and other holidays of, for, for other ethnicities. They have created a whole new division that tackles diversity and implementing diversity. They have redone their bias training in stores because that was another thing that I had asked them to do. Because in some stores, the experience for people of color, for myself included, was not the greatest. So redoing the bias training, promoting people of color into certain positions in their diversity council. It’s just been, it’s just been a lot. Going to schools that are predominantly Black or predominantly people of color to do more recruiting, putting people of color in those recruiting positions because it doesn’t really make sense to go to a school that’s predominantly Black but not have any Black or people of color recruiters. If the students can’t see themselves in the position, then what’s the point of even going. We need people in those positions to be able to relate and talk to the students, to be able to recruit them. So it’s just a long list, a list that’s growing, working with different people of color influencers, myself included. It’s, it’s been a lot, but I’m really, really happy that they took the suggestions and the feedback. And they even offered like a $10,000 grant to, I think, 15 or 20 different Black artists and sewers. So it’s, again, it’s just been amazing to see that my one email, my one voice, resulted in so much change that I truly do not think would have happened if I had not reached out.

Caroline: It’s so fantastic. And it’s just proof that every voice matters because I think it’s so easy to sit back and say, oh, this is really horrible. You know, I don’t think this company is taking a stand and, but not actually reach out and say anything cause you just don’t think it’s gonna make a difference. But it’s just showing that, you know, use your voice. Everybody should be using their voice cause you just never know what one voice, what difference that can make, you know? 

Terrance: Absolutely. Yeah, and I think that’s the biggest feedback that I’ve heard. And people have said like, I’m going to use my voice because you don’t know what could happen, what changes you can make.

Caroline: Yeah. I wonder what you think needs to change in the sewing world, kind of, at large to make it more inclusive. Do you have any thoughts about that?

Terrance: I think, hm, I think people have to let go of the idea that it’s only for a certain demographic of people that it’s only for, you know, white women that, you know, quilting is only for, you know, older, white women or just the, these preconceived notions. I think if we let that go, it will be a better environment for people because everyone can sew, if they want to, or everyone can knit, or everyone can craft or, or do whatever. It’s not necessarily only for a certain demographic of people. But I also think that the majority of the people in those positions also need to be open-minded. So people who own sewing blogs or fabric stores,  whether they’re big or small, or pattern making companies, they need to have more inclusive marketing. They need to have people of color wearing their patterns, um, buying their fabric are included in their, like, influencer marketing and things like that. We need to see more representation. I think that is one of the biggest things. More representation. 

Helen: Yeah. That’s a really great tip. And you know, talking about the people who are in that position, if you are, you know, a white person aged 30 to 50 and you craft and that, you know, does make up a huge portion of the people in our community. Just changing the way that you talk about your craft with other people. Don’t refer to everyone who sews as a woman. Or don’t assume, you know, that people have a certain gender just because they’re wearing a certain thing. You can, you can be an ally just in the language that you use when you are with your friends or when you’re at the fabric store. And it’s those little changes that, over time, are going to be, you know, make these bigger changes in our community. 

Terrance: Absolutely. 

Helen: Well, before we go, we were wondering if we could ask you a bit about, you know, reflecting on your past and your future as a sewist and business owner. So what, for you, have been some of your career highlights and things that you are really proud of?

Terrance: I think the fact that I’m a self-taught sewer and that I’ve been able to grow the brand as much as I have being a self-taught sewer is something that I’m really proud of. I see a lot of people who have been doing this for a lot longer than I have, and there are people who have gone to school for it and, you know, can draft patterns in like five seconds. And I always get really envious of everyone else’s talent and everything that they’re able to do. But I think for me, I’m personally really impressed because I didn’t,in the very beginning, didn’t even think I was going to be able to sew in a zipper. That was one of the most difficult things, trying to do, but now I’m sewing in zippers, and I’m making clothes and garments and doing everything that I’m doing now. And I never thought I would get to this point, making the items that I have, being self-taught, but here I am, and it’s, it’s working. So that’s probably one of the most things that I am proud of and excited about the fact that I was able to teach myself. And here I am. 

Helen: It is such an accomplishment. And where do you see your business going in the future? What are your big dreams? 

Terrance: I really want to expand on the activism part of my business. So I’m doing a lot right now on the sustainability front and for Black Lives Matter, but I would really love to expand that to give back in more ways. I don’t know how big I want my business to get. It’s kind of, I guess, a catch-22, trying to remain sustainable and a small business but also wanting to grow at the same time. So, I definitely have ideas and plans for collections and stuff, but really, I’ve, I’ve taught myself that I just have to enjoy the moment. Last year was just so crazy and hectic, and I was just trying to get my bearings, that I really wasn’t able to enjoy it. So now that, um, things have slowed down a little bit and I have a system and things worked out and some assistance and some help, I’m just enjoying it every day and taking it all in.

Helen: That’s really great advice – something I’m going to take into the rest of my day, because sometimes things are hectic. And not only if you’re running a business, but just in everyday life with all the things that people have going on. And, and even in our sewing, sometimes it can feel a bit frantic, but it’s nice to remind ourselves to just slow down and just enjoy every moment. 

Terrance: Yes. Yes, definitely. 

Caroline: So where can our listeners find you online, Terrance? 

Terrance: I am everywhere. Running an e-commerce business, I’m everywhere. So I’m on Instagram @terrancewilliamsdesigns. I’m on Twitter under the same handle. Pinterest. Tik-Tok. YouTube. Everywhere. 

Caroline: Amazing. We’ll link all of that up in the show notes and on socials this week. We wish all the best for you. And we’re sure that you’re going to continue to do amazing things with your business and your sewing. Thank you so much for chatting with us today, Terrance. 

Terrance: Thank you so much for having me. And the opportunity, it really means a lot, especially being a small business owner, but a Black small business owner, always having the opportunity to talk about it, it really means a lot. So thank you. 

Caroline: Amazing. Thank you so much. 

Helen: Thanks so much, Terrance. Take care. 

Terrance: Bye. 

Caroline: Bye. 

Helen: Bye. 

Helen: That is it for today’s episode of Love to Sew. You can find me Helen at helensclosetpatterns.com and Caroline at blackbirdfabrics.com.

Caroline: We’re recording today in beautiful British Columbia, Canada, and you can get in touch with us and get links for everything we talked about in this episode at lovetosewpodcast.com. 

Helen: If you’re enjoying the show and you want to help us out, you can support us on Patreon. Contribute $5 or more a month and you’ll get access to our bonus episode feed. Contribute $10 or more a month and you’ll also get a 15% discount code for both of our shops and a bonus mini episode. Go to patreon.com/lovetosew for more info. 

Caroline: Thank you to our amazing podcast team. And thank you all so much for listening. We’ll talk to you next week. 

Helen: Buh-bye.

Caroline: Bye.

Helen:: Buh-bias tape.

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