Join us as we chat with Susan Khalje about the art of couture sewing! We chat about why couture matters, how to create ‘couture moments’ in your wardrobe, and the tools needed to succeed with couture sewing. We also chat about her Couture Sewing School and her favourite couture shops!

---

Sister Mintaka is delighted to offer Love to Sew listeners 10% off their first order when they use coupon code “LOVETOSEW” at checkout!

---

The transcript for this episode is on this page at the end of the show notes.

• Follow Susan!
  • Susan Khalje Couture: Sewing Club
  • Susan Khalje Couture
  • Instagram: @susankhalje
  • Facebook: Susan Khalje Couture (SK)
  • Youtube: Susan Khalje Couture
  • Bluprint (now Craftsy): Susan Khalje
• Christian Dior – History and Modernity, 1947-1957
• Bridal Couture: Fine Sewing Techniques for Wedding Gowns and Evening Wear

• Couture Sewing Tools:
  • Silk organza

• • Waxed tracing paper

• • Tracing wheel

• • Glass head pins

• • Japanese cotton basting thread

• • Scissors

• • Beeswax

• SKC: Waxed Tracing Paper

• The Parisian Jacket pattern

• Linen & Cotton: Classic Sewing Techniques for Great Results

• Fitting & Pattern Alteration: A Multi-Method Approach

• Fabric Stores:
  • Mendel Goldberg Fabrics
  • B & J Fabrics
  • Mood Fabrics
  • Fabrics & Fabrics
  • Sposabella Lace
  • Britex Fabrics
  • Promenade Fine Fabrics
  • Mulberry Silks & Fine Fabrics
• The Couture Sewing School
• Susan Khalje Couture: Sewing Club

---

Transcript:

This transcript was made from the Love to Sew Favourite version of this episode, released on January 25, 2022. You can listen to this version of the episode on the player below:

Caroline: Hello, Love to Sew listener. We’re currently in our podcast off-season, so we’re taking a little break from recording right now.

Helen: This winter we’re so excited to revisit some of our favourite episodes from years past. We hope you will love these reruns as much as we do. Remember, you can still access the show notes by going to LoveToSewPodcast.com and searching for the episode.

If you want more Love to Sew, head over to our Patreon. We have a lot of fun over there, and we appreciate our Patreon fam so, so much.

Caroline: Yes, we do. For $5 USD per month, you’ll get access to our monthly bonus episode. Our Patreon episodes really feel like a catch up with friends. This is where we share what we’ve been up to in our personal lives, our businesses, what we’re sewing, and things we’re loving like recipes, podcasts, TV shows, board games, and more. Throughout the month, we also share behind the scenes photos, including sneaky peeks of some upcoming releases from our businesses.

Helen: Yes, it is top secret stuff just for our Patreon supporters. And if you join at the $10 USD per month, you get a 15% discount code for both Blackbird Fabrics and Helen’s Closet. The code can be reused again and again, so it’s a great deal, especially if you shop with us frequently. Plus, you’ll get a bonus mini-sode where we answer a patron question or cover a specific sewing topic. You can learn more about all the things we have to offer and sign up to support us at patreon.com/LoveToSew.

Caroline: And don’t worry folks, we’ll be back in March 2022 with a fabulous new season of Love to Sew. Now let’s get to this Love to Sew favourite.

Helen: Hello, and welcome. I’m Helen.

Caroline: And I’m Caroline.

Helen: And we love to sew. This is a podcast for makers where we talk about sewing a handmade wardrobe and bring you interviews with inspiring creatives and small business owners in our community.

Caroline: Today, we have Susan Khalje on the show to talk about couture sewing. Susan shares her expertise about what makes a garment couture, how we can make space for special techniques in our sewing practice, and what tools we need to get a beautiful couture finish. We also chat about her amazing couture sewing school, sewing club, and online classes.

Helen: What doesn’t she do?

Hello, Susan. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Susan: Oh, it’s my pleasure. I’m thrilled to be here.

Helen: We are thrilled to have you. Can you please introduce yourself to our listeners?

Susan: Absolutely. I’m Susan Khalje. I teach couture sewing, and I’m also a contributing editor to Threads magazine, and oh gosh, I’ve written a couple of books, um, used to have a TV show. I’ve done lots of magazine articles, so, kind of, anything and everything to do with couture sewing.

Helen: And that is why we are so excited to have you on the show because I know our listeners are interested in couture sewing, would love to hear ways they can integrate that into their sewing practice, um, and also just to hear about you and your journey because you have done so much and you have so many exciting things going on. So where are you from?

Susan: I’m from Baltimore, pretty much. Based in Baltimore now, although I did live for a number of years in London when I had a previous life as a classical pianist. And I’ve also lived in Afghanistan where at one point I was running a clothing factory.

Helen: Ooh, cool. We didn’t have any questions about that on our list, but I’m going to add some in there.

Susan: You know, we had a showroom on Seventh Avenue in New York, and I think if anything, it told me that I did not want to be involved in that aspect of the sewing business, that I much preferred my own, I guess, being left to my own devices, being able to develop my own path.

Caroline: And you really have done that throughout your career, so I don’t want to delay any longer. I really want to hear about your sewing journey. So could you tell us how and when you learn to sew?

Susan: Well, you know, my grandmother was a wonderful sewer, and I think she was the kind of sewer, back in the day, she sewed because people sewed. She used to make lots of little dresses for me when I was little, and she had a wonderful sewing room and a huge jar of extra buttons and a treadle sewing machine, and it always seemed very magical to me. And I can actually remember making some kind of a shirt for myself that I do remember wearing out on the street. Goodness. And, um, I remember cutting little holes in the fabric for the buttons, and I couldn’t have been more than maybe seven or eight years old.

And then I studied sewing in home-ec, which people did back in the day, and that was when I, kind of, began to have a real interest in it. I remember spending free time, you know, you could be in a fabric store and look through those Vogue pattern books forever. And, um, I don’t know, it was, it was something I was, I think, like a lot of us, I had, kind of, a talent in, but in those days I never, ever, ever thought it would be a career. It was just something I liked to do.

And I think, like all of us, you know, you buy, you buy more and more complicated patterns. Now you can say, oh, I haven’t done this sort of a collar, and you get a pattern that had that, or I haven’t done, you know, a jacket collar, so you’d get something that showed you that. So it was, kind of, self-guided, and there was the Vogue sewing book back in the day which was, kind of, a very important thing for me. So I think, I think I, kind of, went about as far as you could go on your own, sort of, left to your own devices.

Helen: And then what happened next? Did you end up studying fashion and studying pattern making?

Susan: Not at all. Not at all. No, because there was this, the music inter-, interlude, so I went to a conservatory and then graduate school in England. And then I, I loved England so much I stayed another four years in London. And then I injured my wrist. Not good if you’re a pianist. So I moved back to New York, and I had a girlfriend whose grandmother was a client at a small couture salon. And my girlfriend knew that I sewed. I mean, my friends all knew that I sewed well cause I’ve made things for people sometimes. And she said, well, you know, they, they need someone, and you need a job, and you’re really good at sewing, so why didn’t you, why didn’t you see?

And honestly, I won’t say it was a lark, but it was never, ever anything I had ever thought I would do as a career. It just, it just wasn’t on my radar at all. But I went in and I took a blouse that I’d made for a friend that was, kind of, my little audition piece. I remember it was black chiffon, flowered, had lots of ruffles and, um, I guess they, they saw some potential in that, so I was hired. And I absolutely fell in love with it from day one. It made, and, of course, this was couture sewing, and it was different than what I knew, but it made perfect sense.

And I think it was the logic of it that appealed to me then, that has appealed to me since. It’s so rooted in logic that I don’t know, you know, once you, once you get that, to me, there’s, kind of, no other way. I remember once, I think I was doing an interview for Threads, and I said, well, you know, any other way of sewing is a compromise. And I thought, oh goodness, that sounds pretty snooty, but it’s, kind of, true. I mean, this, this, these are the methods that have developed over the decades, these tried and true methods, and they really do give the most beautiful results.

And, and of course, there’s, there’s a tremendous amount of creativity within that, you know? It’s not just those rules, it’s how you choose to apply them. And I think I’ve, kind of, been in love with the whole process ever since.

Caroline: Oh, well, it’s so wonderful. I feel like we have just this amazing opportunity having you, a couture expert, on the podcast because we haven’t had a chance to really dive into couture sewing with our listeners. So I thought, kind of, a good way to start us off would be for you to just define what couture sewing is for our listeners.

Susan: Oh, sure. I, I’d love to because I get asked that a lot. You know, cause I say to peo-, you know, you’re on the plane and people say, oh, what do you do? And I, I say, I teach couture sewing, and then their eyes, kind of, glaze over. But, you know, it’s kind of sewing the way your grandmother used to sew. It’s sewing without shortcuts.

It’s, and I, kind of, think of it as sewing’s equivalent of gourmet cooking, you know, where maybe you go across town to get the perfect ingredients. You can get out those pots and pans that you don’t normally use. And you, you know, you go through the Julia Child eight page recipe for cassoulet, and you really do get a very spectacular result.

And I think of it as, kind of, that way. Yeah. There, there might be extra steps involved, but it’s, it’s for such, such a wonderful result that it’s, it’s really well worth it. Now, do you cook a gourmet meal every night? Well, probably not. Some of us, as one trick ponies, would, and it’s the only way I, I really enjoy sewing. But, um, you know, it may be something you do a lot. It may be something you only do occasionally. But I think sewing benefits by this approach. I really do.

Helen: And we can’t wait to hear what suggestions you have for our listeners. Um, but one thing that I hear a lot is that couture sewing is all done by hand. And is that true or is there room for machines in couture sewing?

Susan: There’s plenty of room for machine sewing. Um, I think that’s an urban myth. Uh, certainly, yeah, lots is done by hand because that, of course, gives you a lot of control, but certainly, yeah, tons is done by machine. I mean, the machines that we had at Chez Cez et Bez certainly weren’t complicated. I don’t think they even went in reverse, but you know, what, what you’re looking for is a machine that does a beautiful straight stitch. And honestly, that’s about all that you need from a machine for couture work.

That said, you know, things are different sewn by machine and sewn by hand. So for instance, when we put in a lining in a couture garment, it’s sewn in by hand. You stay stitch the edge of the fashion fabric. That gets turned in. You stay stitch the edge of the lining. That gets turned in. And then you sew them together with a fell stitch, and then you do under stitching by hand. And honestly, it feels completely different than if you sew the lining and by machine and under stitch by machine. It really does.

I mean, you know, because if you do that machine sewing, in the first place, you’ve got four layers of thread, right? Two from when you sewed the lining on, and two from when you did your under stitching and, you know, there’s tension in there that holds those threads together. So that’s a very, very different feel than if you just have hand stitching in there.

Caroline: And of course, often in couture sewing, you’re working with more delicate fabrics, so you have to be mindful of that I’m sure when you’re considering sewing by machine or by hand.

Susan: Oh yes. And you know, sometimes you just get better control in the Bridal Couture book, one of the sample gowns that I did, now remember this was back in the day, but there were big puffy sleeves and there was the fashion fabric there was net in there to make them puff out, and it was just a gigantic thing. And th-, the thought of trying to sew that into a relatively small armscye and get the gathers where you want them to be and get the net where you want it to be, I just, I think it’s asking for trouble. I think it would be terrifying. Goodness knows what you’d end up with, right?

You know when you sew and you think, well, let’s see how this looks. Right? You know this. Well, if you sew it in by hand, you don’t have that, that uncertainty, you know? You have such a degree of control and coming to that word, I think that, you know, I joke to my students that I want to stamp the word control on their heads, but that’s what it’s all about. You control every step of the process, and you really, kind of, remove room for error. So, for instance, you control things right away by making a muslin, a toile, you know, a fitting garment, uh, a copy of the garment in, usually unbleached muslin, before you even start. Instead of, well, let me sew this together and see if it fits. Oh, really? That’s expecting a lot. So why don’t we do a dry run? Why don’t we give it a try? Why don’t we see if this is going to work? Why don’t we see if there are any changes we need to make? Why don’t we see if we need more fabric in the bust? Why don’t we test all that out? Why don’t we do a dry run, right?

And you know, when you’re working with the sort of fabrics you work with on a couture garment, and usually you want a special fabric because, let’s face it, you’ve got a lot of time invested in this process.

Helen: Why do you think that people don’t do more testing and muslins and trying out techniques before they jumped right into the sewing? Do you have any theories?

Susan: Well, yeah, I mean, it just takes more time. I don’t even always like to make a muslin, you know? I have an online thing. We’ve been filming a class, and we’re doing, at the moment, the circle skirt dress. And so obviously, I made a muslin of the bodice, and you’ve got two bodices. I made a muslin of those. And I, I said to the fellow who films with us, I said, gosh, do you really think I need to make this skirt muslin?

And he looked at me like I had two heads because he’s been working with me a long time. And he said, you, you don’t think you need to make the muslin? I know. I was just trying to get out of it. Obviously, I did, and I’m glad I did. And there are all kinds of reasons why it made sense, but yeah, it takes time. And I think we’re just eager to jump into the project.

Caroline: Yeah, I can feel that need a lot of the time when I’m approaching sewing where I just want to jump in, but I think that’s one of the wonderful things about couture sewing is that it almost forces you to be a little bit more deliberate and a little bit slower and just approach things in a more careful way.

Susan: Yeah, it completely does because I think when you do this kind of sewing, you love the process. And you, you really do. You love every step of the process, hopefully, otherwise, as a friend of mine says, write the check, go to, go to Bloomingdale’s and buy the dress. But hopefully, you love all the steps along the way. And I guess that’s reinforced, hopefully, by the results that you get.

And when you think, gosh, thank goodness I made this dress up in muslin because, you know, it doesn’t really suit me. I’m glad I didn’t waste any more time on this one, or, you know, thank goodness I practised that tricky seaming on this muslin because now I know what to do when I get to the garment. So it’s, yeah, it’s, do I always like taking the time to make a muslin? No, but do, do I regret it heavily if I don’t? Yes.

Caroline: So, Susan, can you give us some examples of sewing techniques that are often used in couture sewing that may be different from what home sewists are used to using regularly?

Susan: Oh, sure. I guess one, just one that comes to mind right away is a handpicked zipper. And I’ve seen an awful lot of lovely garments, um, I don’t want to say ruined, but, um, looking not quite as lovely as they might look with a machine sewn zipper, right? And handpicked zippers are so easy to do that once people learn how to do them, they’re like, oh my goodness. I’ll never do a machine zipper again. And I think people always wonder, are they going to be strong enough? And they’re very strong.

Now, I don’t know if you’d use them for little junior dungarees, but, um, you know, there’s sewn with double thread that’s coated with beeswax and. you know, really nice firm stitches. And honestly, they’re, they’re as strong as you ever need them to be. They really are, so that I think is one technique that, um, home sewers could easily incorporate.

Helen: I think our listeners are probably going to be very excited right now because I know a lot of people are afraid of zippers, and they don’t have a lot of success sewing them. So knowing that there’s another option where you don’t need to try to wrangle it through your machine.

Susan: Oh, which is the worst. Oh, goodness gracious. I, oh, no, it’s a nightmare. You try to sew along and then it clunks down off the thing and you get, you know, it, you don’t get a straight line. Plus you see all that thread on the back and, you know, you can do either a centred application, which is lovely, or you can do a lapped zipper. They’re, they’re both lovey and honestly, not at all hard to do. And once you do them that way, oh my goodness. You’re a convert. You’re sold.

Caroline: Yeah, I can completely relate to this. I love a handpicked zipper. And one of the first times I tried that was for a dress that I made for my sister’s wedding, to wear to my sister’s wedding. And I just wanted to have that control in the back because the print was so lovely. And I just wanted it to know that the zipper would be invisible. And I don’t know, there’s just something about that, like, hand sewing of the zipper with that technique that just takes that garment over the edge into something really, really special. So honouring those special garments, I think with these couture sewing techniques is a great way for our listeners to, kind of, create that moment in their regular sewing practice.

Susan: I agree. And I would say another one, you know, I talked a minute ago about sewing in linings. You know, so let’s say you were doing a sleeveless dress, okay? And let’s say, you know, you, kind of, sew the lining by machine, and you have to pull it through and all that, and you hope that everything lines up. It can be very, very difficult, in the first place, to get the two sides to match perfectly, and it can be hard to get the lining fabric to line up perfectly with a fashion fabric. right?

I mean, sometimes there’s too little of it, in which case you get a lump in the fashion fabric, or there’s too much of it, in which case it, kind of, peaks out the edges. Well, if you were to sew the lining in by hand, you could just put it exactly where it needs to be, right? You could just fold it and put it exactly on the line, perfectly placed, just the right amount.

So, yeah, it takes a little bit of time, but honestly, not that much time, and, you know, the result that you get is so beautiful, and it makes so much sense. I always think, with my students, there are a couple of big departures that couture sewing has from, if we might say traditional sewing or the way people sew today, and one is that we don’t rely on that five-eighth inch seam allowance as a guide. And, you know, if you’re a fit model that might be fine. Or if you’re selling a pillowcase, that might be fine. But otherwise I think that just doesn’t give you enough leeway. It doesn’t give you enough room to play with.

So in couture sewing, it’s the seam line that’s marked, the seam line is your guide. And there’s always a big seam allowance, and that’s your insurance. Let’s say you want the neckline to be higher, or you want the sleeve to be longer, or the waistline needs to be lower, or you need more room at the centre back or on the sides. You can fix all those things because you-, you’ve built in this decent seam allowance, so that’s a huge difference.

And I have to say, you know, I’m older than you guys, but back in the day, you know, you’d buy a pattern and the seam line was marked. They were individual sizes, and there was always a seam line, and then it was a seam allowance, but the seam allowance, the seam line was marked. You know, couture solves it by marking the seam lines and giving yourself all kinds of room because you’re going to need it. You know, nothing, nothing ever fits perfectly. Gosh, it just doesn’t.

Helen: It’s so true. And when you’re marking your seam lines, are you marking them with chalk or do you use a running stitch?

Susan: Well, that, that gets into another big thing that couture sewing does which is almost, golly, almost all of the time, not a hundred percent, but much of the time, we use an underlining. And an underlining is a supporting layer that, I think, gives a bit of oompf to the fashion fabric behind the scenes, but it also is a layer that you put the marks on.

And silk organza is what we use so much of the time, so the silk organza gets marked and then this, the marked silk organza gets hand basted to the fashion fabric. So you create this, kind of, two layered pod, if you will, um, and that’s treated from then on out almost as a single layer.

So what does that do? That does all kinds of wonderful things. Let’s say you’ve got a pleated skirt. Well, it helps fill out those pleats. It spares the fashion fabric from having that marking go on it. Um, if you’re sewing your hem, the hem stitches go to the underlying, not the fashion fabric, so you don’t see them, cuts down on wrinkling, absorbs perspiration. You can also shift the colour.

Let’s say you’re working with a white fabric. You’re making a white wedding gown bodice, and it’s a little too white. Well, if you use a cream underlining, you can shift that colour a little bit. Or if you want it to be really white, you can use a white underlining and really make that white, even more intense.

The, the biggest example I had of that, you know, I used to do custom bridal. That’s what I did for decades. And I had a bride who wanted, there’s, kind of, a colour that was popular at one point, it was called a rum pink, and it was a beautiful pink, and it almost had, kind of, a beige-y undertone to it. It was gorgeous. And that’s what my client wanted, but I couldn’t find quite the right colour.

I remember, I was up in New York at B&J, and I actually found a pink satin, and I used of all things, a chocolate brown underlying. It sounds bizarre, but it was just, I know, you’re right, but it was just enough to make this beautiful deepening of the pink with this brown behind it. Who knew? So underlinings do all sorts of things, but your question, how do we mark these seam lines? Often, we use tracing paper, the old wax tracing paper, and that’s what marks the underlining. Now, you have to be careful with that stuff because it’s pretty permanent, and you don’t want to ruin something, so you do have to use it with caution.

Caroline: You have a great video on YouTube, all about, ah, this wax tracing paper where you sort of walk us through it. So we’ll have Sam link that in the show notes, if anyone is wondering what that’s all about. So it sounds like silk organza and a wax tracing paper are two things that are pretty essential to the couture sewing process. Can you walk us through any other specific tools that are used in couture sewing?

Susan: Well, you’ll need a tracing wheel. Um, uh, I don’t know. I’m, like, the lowest tech sewer in the world.

Helen: Do you use, like, specific types of pins?

Susan: I do. I do. I’m so glad you asked. Um, yeah, and this is so funny. We’re working on an article at the moment for Threads, and I think it’s called the couture toolkit. So I named all these things, and they’re all things I have in my store. And I wrote to my editor and I said, you know, this is awful. This is going to sound like an infomercial, but these are the things you need.

And so let’s talk about pins. So there’s a wonderful sewing teacher named Judy Bartlett, who used to specialise in a lot of Japanese tailoring techniques. And years and years ago, when I first started my couture sewing school, she said, oh, Susan, you have got to use these Japanese pins and needles for your students. They’re the best. And they really are the best because, so when you put a pin into your fabric in the first place, you don’t want the fabric, you don’t want to have to cram it into your fabric because what happens, the fabric shifts, right? And you lose control, so you need a pin that goes in effortlessly, but you don’t want one that’s too long.

And there are a lot of beautiful, thin, long pins. There are some that, oh, they’re so pretty that’ve got multicoloured glass on the ends, they’re beautiful, but they’re too long, and they’re too thin, and they bend too easily, so you don’t want that. And these, they’re glass headed pins. They’re beautiful. They don’t melt if you press on them, right? Cause you can find pins that have a plastic end. That’s not such a good idea. They also don’t get lost in lace, and I work a lot with lace, and, you know, a lot of pins, kind of, sink out of sight. So I think they’re just gorgeous pins, mostly because they won’t bend, but they go through any fabric without shifting it, and that’s really the whole, the whole reason.

And the same with hand sewing needles. Again, there is certainly hand sewing involved in this process and you want the needle to go through your fabric effortlessly. You don’t want to have to cram it through the fabric because, again, things are going to shift, and you want to maintain this degree of control the whole way. Well, if every time you put your needle into the fabric, it shifts around. Well, that’s not a good idea, is it? Plus, you know, you just, kind of, get tired. You want, you want the needle going into the fabric to be an effortless part of the whole situation. And these are, oh gosh, once you get used to these needles, anything else feels like pitchfork.

Oh, and basting, so there is, you know, I talked earlier about putting those two layers together, the underlining and the fashion fabric, and that’s done by hand. It’s not done by machine because that, we’ve talked before about the effect of machine sewing, but let’s say you changed your seam line, and you had that machine sewing in there, and fabrics are going to slip. You have to do this by hand, and you want to be able to put a lot of stitches on your needle. So basting, you know, we found these wonderful basting needles that you can really put a lot of, you know, you can get a lot of stitches on those.

And then basting thread. Back in the day, silk, you know, basting thread was, was usually silk. And I think the theory was that it, I don’t know, everybody said it didn’t leave an impression if you pressed it, and it’s easy to pull out, but it’s very hard to find the right weight of silk basting thread anymore. So many of them out there, some Japanese silk threads, but they’re so thin, it’s hard to get much of a grip with them. So these days, I like the Japanese cotton which it ha-, it clings nicely to the fashion fabric which is, which is great. Good scissors, um, little, little four-inch scissors that, that just clip to a really sharp point.

Beeswax, you want to have beeswax if you’re sewing, you know, if you’re putting in those hand picked zippers, um, because anytime strength is required, you want to put beeswax on your thread. So you just thread your needle, you pull the beeswax, you pull your thread through the beeswax a couple of times, but you then have to press it to melt the beeswax into the thread, because if you don’t, all the beeswax will come off in the first few stitches, so that’s no good. But what you really need to do is, kind of, coat that thread with the melted beeswax, so that’s an important part of that. Ithink that’s honestly, you could, kind of, do what you need to do with that.

Helen: I love hearing that because that’s a very approachable toolkit, and we’ll make sure we link everything in the show notes in case people want to get started.

Susan: But it is, you know, this is, I say, I’d be happy in a garret, you know, give me a garrett and a candle, a spool of thread, a needle. I’m good. I’m fine. I’d be perfect in the 17th century. My harpsichord and my sewing supplies. It’d be great.

Helen: And what about interfacing? Because we talk about interfacing a lot on the show and I’m sure our listeners would love to hear what your go-to interfacing method is.

Susan: Oh gosh. I hardly ever use it.

Helen: Um, I had a feeling you might say that.

Susan: Well, you know me, um, no, we do use it a little bit, and honestly, I am, I am the furthest thing from knowledgeable in that subject, but we do use it, for instance, behind bound buttonholes, right up against the fashion fabric, not on the organza, but against the fashion fabric.

We use it if, um, we’ve just got this new pattern that, the Parisian Jacket, and it’s got a cut on sleeve, and of course, you know, you have those hinge points where you have to reinforce your fabric and cut right into that sharp angle, so, um, interfacing is used there, fusible.

Anytime where you have an angled seam you have to cut into, but I think it’s not used so much in couture sewing because it does seem to me there’s always, kind of, a problem with getting it to stick permanently and consistently, and, to my mind, it changes the nature of the fabric so totally. So, I mean, I joke with my students. You could make a, I don’t know, a riding jacket out of silk chiffon, if you fused it enough, but would it be silk chiffon?

So sometimes it’s, kind of, an experiment, but back to your questions about fusibles. Yeah, a little bit, but not a whole lot. Um, maybe in an under collar, you could use them, if you felt that would do what you want it to do. You can detect a degree of reluctance here, but, um…

Helen: No, I appreciate you answering the question because I do think, um, you can do a lot of sewing without interfacing. And you talked about control at the beginning of the episode. And a lot of times interfacing things like collars is about getting them to be stiffer so we can have more control. But of course, if you’re hand sewing, you already have that control, and you can manipulate things a little easier.

Susan: Well, you can… Now, I’ll tell you another time, so I mentioned we’re in the middle of filming this circle skirt dress. So it actually has, so in the bodice, it’s, kind of, a sleeveless bodice, there’s a handpicked zipper down the centre back, and this particular dress does not have an underlining. It has just a lining. So the fashion fabric isn’t underlined when you do this zipper. And sometimes, of course, you get some of the support for the zipper from the zipper tape, which is good, and, you know, you’re pretty much on the straight of grain coming down the back of the dress.

But on the sample dress I have, which is actually the dress on the cover of the Linen and Cotton book, I was zipping that zipper, you know, to put it off and on the dress form the other day, and I found that the fabric was getting caught in the zipper. And I thought, well, that it doesn’t look too good. What can we do about that? So I got some fusible and on the sample that I’m going to be making, I’m going to put some very lightweight fusible down that zipper placket so that it will hopefully strengthen the fabric along that fold and keep it from, kind of, crumbling and getting caught in the teeth of the zipper.

Caroline: That sounds like a great use for interfacing.

Susan: Yes, there you have it.

Caroline: So I think a lot of our listeners are thinking like, this is a lot of amazing information, but what is the process actually like for creating a couture garment? So could you walk us through that process of developing a garment from concept to a finished item? Like, what does that look like in steps?

Susan: Okay. Well, to me they’re, kind of, five elements that I think all have to come together. So I think, I guess I’d say it probably starts with design, you know, because if you’re going to put all of this work and time and money into a garment, you want to have something pretty specific in mind, like, oh, I need something special to wear to my sister’s wedding or, you know, to my daughter’s wedding, or I want to make a beautiful suit. So I think you start with that. And, um, I always think, what does the design say? Does it say enough? Does it say too much? I always ask myself, why are certain elements there? So there’s design and I study that pretty, pretty carefully.

Um, you know, and there’s also the concept, I have a friend in England who does custom work, and he says that his clients come to them, come to him with needing a specific garment in their wardrobe, you know? It’s not just, oh, I want to dress, no, I need a new blouse now, or I need a new jacket now. So there’s the whole concept of building a wardrobe too, you know? What fits into the scheme of things? What’s going to be perhaps a useful garment to have? So lots of thought for the design and then fabric.

Oh my goodness. Couture garments use pretty gorgeous fabrics. Again, you know, this is a process that takes a lot of time, and you’re, you’re putting so much effort into it. You want something that’s going to last and the better the fabric is, I think the easier it is to work with, the more beautifully it’s designed. And, you know, you see these beautiful prints, and they’re obviously, you know, a more expensive fabric. Well, they paid their fabric designer more money. And honestly, these really beautiful fabrics do so much of the work for you. They, they don’t make it a struggle to work with them, you know? The patterns just fall into place. They help you with the placement. They, they’re just a joy to work with.

And you know, sometimes I’ll have a student who says, oh gosh, I can’t wait to get good, and then I can sew with better fabrics. Hm. It’s so hard to sew with lousy fabrics. It is a fight you every step of the way. So, you know, should your first sewing project be out of an expensive fabric? Of course not. But I always say, if you were going to have Julia Child come for dinner, you probably wouldn’t serve her rump roast. Get filet mignon. And you just get a better result with these really, really beautiful fabrics. Plus, they’re inspiring. They feel wonderful to work with. They’re beautiful every time you look at them, so that I think fuels much of the process.

Alright, so there’s design, there’s fabric, and then, elephant in the room, fit, um, which let’s face it. It’s the hardest thing of all. Um, it really is. It’s the hardest thing to get right. And fit is tricky, um, because you can’t fit yourself, not very successfully, you know? I always say you can’t cut your own hair. You can’t do your own dental work. You can’t fit yourself. I, I can’t fit myself. I always wish I had me to fit me. Um, I do. There are great dress forms out there these days that help.

Um, you know, you can take a class with somebody and then, you know, get a, let’s say you get a beautiful dress that fits perfectly, and you can vary that tremendously. Change the neckline, change the sleeves, change the sleeve length, you know, add seam lines, and it’s a great basis. And I think you could go an awfully long way with a relatively few well-fitted basics. Gosh, it’s tricky because it’s, kind of, different in every, every garment, you know, every combination is different. It’s that design on that person in that fabric, how they want it to fit. This person likes a tighter garment than that person.

And, you know, the variables are endless, and it’s tricky. There’s a wonderful fitting book it’s called Fitting and Pattern Alteration: A Multi-Method Approach, and it’s by Rasband, Pottberg, and Liechty. I’s easy to find. And what it does, this, kind of, second half of the book, goes into all the body variations, and it’s almost a little bit like a medical textbook because it’ll have a paragraph that says the ulna is pro-, pronated and blah, blah, blah. And, but it makes you look at the body, and then, that tells you what to do. And honestly it becomes, kind of, a logical process because otherwise, you’re just, kind of, stabbing in the dark. Oh, oh, there’s a wrinkle. Oh, let’s pin that up. Oh no another one. Oh, let’s get rid of that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Go back further. And once you know what’s going on in the body, it all makes sense.

Um, and you know, I do a lot of fitting. It’s, it’s a big part of what I do, and it’s a fun little puzzle. And I start by just looking at that person, and then you’ll say, oh gosh, she’s fuller on the left hip than the right hip. Okay. I need to know that. Lots of people’s heads aren’t in the middle of their bodies, you know, sounds extreme, but you know, for whatever reasons they get shifted a little bit. That’s pretty important to know. Oh my goodness, the variations are endless. So you need to be good at seeing exactly what’s going on in your body or in the body you’re fitting.

And then, honestly, it becomes not so difficult to, to know what to do about it. Like, the doctor, oh, you have strep. Well, here take this. There’s a logic to it. And that book, I’m not saying it’s the most fascinating reading ever, but if you would read that book from cover to cover, I guarantee that your thoughts about fitting would change for the better a thousand times because it will start training your eye. Ours is a visual art. You have to, you have to see what’s going on with the body, analyse that, then you know, then you know what to do about it.

Okay. So fit. And in the world of couture, we talked before about making a muslin, right? And that’s, that really is the foundation of any, any couture garment. It, it has to be. That’s when you, you can perfect the fit and the proportions of the whole thing. And then I think the other two elements are: construction, obviously, you have to know your way around putting it together; and the hand stitches that we use to help with that.

And the final element that I think is such an, such an important part of it is engineering. You know, we’ve all seen those girls at the Oscars, yanking, their dresses up. Well, that’s a dress that’s not properly engineered, and engineering plays a big part in, gosh, so many garments, um, anything that’s strapless, anything that gets into any big amount of weight. You know, engineering is a big, I think, a very interesting part of the whole equation. It’s gotta be engineered right or I don’t care how well it’s put together.

I don’t care how beautiful the fabric is. If any of these areas fall short, your results are going to be compromised. So to me, those are, kind of, the five, the five elements that have to work in concert.

Helen: It’s so interesting, especially the engineering part, cause that’s not how I thought you were going to finish off the vibe. I thought the end would be the sewing. Um, so can we talk a bit more about engineering? Do you mean like the structure within the garment?

Susan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. There’s, there’s a, uh, there’s an amazing book out at the moment, and you’ll have to look it up or I will send you the link. It’s a book about Dior. And what she has done, she’s a curator in Canada, and she has studied the garments that are in their archive. And they’re mostly, they’re mostly, um, suits and evening wear that were given to this museum by the wealthy women in town. And the detail into which she goes is phenomenal. It’s unbelievable. I’ve never seen anything like it in my life. She’s, she’s made the patterns, and you can see the inner structure, and you talk about engineering. Now, of course, these Dior gowns of what the forties and fifties were. kind of, the, I guess they were a real high point in that kind of engineering, and it’s absolutely fascinating what goes into these things.

And, you know, so much of it, um, well I had a student the other day who made a dress, um, she wanted to wear a strapless dress to a wedding. So we needed to create an inner foundation, a heavily boned inner, inner foundation for it, the, the dress, you know, th-, this inner foundation. Think of a strapless, very, very tight, heavily boned inner part. Well, the dress is just, kind of, over it. I always say it’s like the paint on the wall, right? And it, they were together along the top seam and that’s about it because this inner foundation is really, really snug so it has its own closure. It had little hooks and eyes down the back.

And then the dress is on top of it, slightly bigger, you know, form fitting, but not as snug as this inner foundation garment, and that had a separate closure, a zipper. So, um, without that, I don’t care how carefully fitted a garment is or how tight you make it. If you don’t have this inner structure, it’s just going to head south. That’s gravity for you.

Helen: And if our listeners wanted to tackle a couture project, um, maybe you can use your classes as an example because you do so many workshops, but do people come with patterns? And if so, are they couture patterns? Is there a difference?

Susan: No, no, not necessarily. I mean, I always say I can couture-ize anything. We can, you can bring an a line skirt. We can make that fabulous. Um, and I think sometimes, you know, students will say, oh, you know, I want a project that combines absolutely everything, you know? I want to get my time and money’s worth out of this. Well, okay. You know, I want this and this, this, but, you know, the lovely thing about these techniques is that they can be applied in ways both large and small.

And, you know, how about the little black dress? Oh my goodness, that’s, a wool crepe dress, what a gorgeous thing if it’s beautifully fitted and beautifully put together. What a staple in your wardrobe that, it’s a fantastic thing to have, right? And that’s, that’s a pretty simple garment.

And what’s interesting about this school is that, back in the day, people would come once and that was it. They’d come. Okay, goodbye. Now students come, I mean, I have a lot of students who come every year, and it becomes, kind of, ongoing education, and it’s great for me because I get to see their sewing improve. I mean, that’s really rewarding as a teacher, and I also get to see them go in so many different directions.

So they’ll say, okay, I’ve done this, this, this, what should I do next? And I’ll say, well, let’s do a lace bodice or let’s do something with ruching or, well, we haven’t worked with anything on the bias or, you know, let’s try this. So that’s, that’s really fun. But honestly I think, I think any, any garment, you know, benefits by these techniques.

And, like I said, it can be very simple, just a beautiful sheath. Gosh, what a, what a lovely canvas that is to apply these techniques. Gosh, let’s say you did a wool crepe dress. Um, you know, you could do sleeves that were on the bias and a beautifully fitted sleeve that has darts in the elbows. And if you put that on the bias, then what a lovely fold you get at the bottom, right? You know, you don’t have to have, you know this gigantic evening dress. No, no, no. It can, what’s so brilliant about these techniques is that I think any garment can benefit from them.

Caroline: Can we talk a little bit about fabric as well? Cause I know that that’s such a key element to creating a couture garment. So tell us how you shop for fabric when you’re working on that type of garment and what are, kind of, the key things that you’re looking for in a really high end couture fabric.

Susan: Gosh, um, it’s, kind of, a cheap shot to say that the more you pay the better it is, but in a sense that’s, kind of, true. Although that dress I just described, the girl who made the, the strapless dress, that was made out of a cotton, a lovely, little cotton, and it worked wonderfully, but I’m, I’m kind of spoiled because I’m in lovely fabric stores a lot. So I get to see really beautiful fabrics.

And again, I mentioned before that, you know, the, the good fabric houses hire the best designers. They use the best fibres, not always natural fibres. You know, the, the synthetic fibres these days are incredible. So a lot goes into producing a really beautiful fabric, and in a way, you get what you pay for it. Not that there aren’t bargains out there sometimes, but I think when you get a really spectacular fabric, it, kind of, kind of, pays.

Caroline: Can you, you name some of your favourite fabric stores that you frequent perhaps in the U.S. cause I know a lot of our listeners are based in the U.S.?

Susan: Yeah. Well, there’s Mendel Goldberg which is on the Lower East Side in New York, and it’s run by a wonderful woman named Alice Wildes, who is the, I think, the granddaughter, if not the great granddaughter of Mendel Goldberg, who was, I think, came from Poland and opened this store in the 1890s in what was then the Garment District. Pretty much everybody has decamped to what is now the Garment Center on the Upper West Side in New York, but Alice is, kind of, a holdout.

And I think her fabrics are extraordinary because her eye is so amazing. I love B&J. I think B&J is a great store. That’s in the Upper West Side. Mood Fabric, you know, a lot of people get a lot of good stuff from there. In fact, um, I found a very beautiful Ralph Rucci twill at Mood. There’s Fabrics & Fabrics, also New York, has beautiful stuff. Really, really lovely, lovely things. Sposabella, if you’re looking for bridal, has lovely laces.

On the west coast, of course there’s Britex which is a lovely fabric store. Oh, Promenade. Gosh. How can I forget that? In New Orleans, um, lovely fabric store, really, really wonderful things. Mulberry Silks, i’s in North Carolina. Um, they say silks, but they have a lot of beautiful cottons as well, quite a, quite a selection. Uh, those are the ones, those are the ones that come to mind.

Helen: Oh, that’s great. I’m sure our listeners will be glad to check those out. We’ll link them all in the show notes as well.

Susan: Yeah, yeah.

Caroline: So I want to talk a little bit about your teaching because you touched on that earlier, working with students, and we really want to learn more about what types of classes you’re teaching and, and what that’s all about. So can you give us a little intro to that?

Susan: Sure. Well, back in the day, 1993, um, I, this is funny, I, so Roberta Carr, who many of your members will know, um, wonderful couture dress maker and teacher used to do seminars in her home. And I remember years ago wanting to go to one and I said to my husband, oh gosh, I’d like to go to one of those. And he said, go to one. You should be hosting them. So you, kind of, get this idea in your head and you think, well, okay. Hmm, gosh, could I do that?

So when I very first started, I started, it was called The Bridal Couture Sewing School, and because that was my world wedding gowns, so people would come, we’d do wedding gowns. And then people would say, well, gosh, I’d love to come, but I’m not working on a wedding gown. And truth be told, I got a little sick of only wedding gowns. And I thought, well, you know, Susan, you do call it The Bridal Sewing School, so that is what people are going to sew on.

But I realised I wanted to expand that, so it became couture garments that people would work on. And then I, at The Couture House, we had done a lot of Chanel jackets. We had clients who would, you know, they had the real ones, and we would copy them, so it was a field that I became very familiar with. And, um, then I thought, oh, well maybe I could kind of branch out and we could do those. So that’s where the Classic French Jacket Classes came about, and it’s separated into its own class because I think of those as, kind of, a subset of couture techniques because there are things you do with those jackets that you don’t do with hardcore traditional couture. It’s, kind of, its own little world.

Yeah, those are, kind of, the two, the two main areas. Sometimes I’ve done pure lace skirt classes, but that can be incorporated into couture, so it’s, kind of, kind of, one or the other. Um, the jacket class is usually a seven day class. It’s just a longer, slightly more complicated project. And part of the reason is that when I teach that class in Baltimore, we go to New York to shop because you really want to have the right fabric and the right linings and trims, and that’s one of the challenges of that project.

Um, in fact, next week I’m doing a, a jacket class in New Orleans, and we’ll be going to Promenade for fabric. But, you know, I’ve given my students other resources because it’s a little trickier teaching that class, not in Baltimore or not in San Francisco, where we can go to Britex, and they have lots of trims cause you’ve got to get all the bits and pieces that go with those jackets. But those are, kind of, the two main avenues.

Helen: Well, your classes are legendary because I think every sewist I’ve ever run into has said they want to take one of your classes. That’s one of their goals of their sewing career is to go and take the class with Susan Khalje.

Susan: Oh, gosh. Well, I have to say and so, well, that’s wonderful to hear, and, you know, it’s not just me because what is so lovely about it, and I didn’t realise this when I started it is that you are with kindred spirits, right? You’re with kindred souls, and people make the most wonderful friendships out of these classes. So do I, I mean, I have so many wonderful friends who I first met in my sewing classes.

Helen: Yeah. People come and they just, they have a great time, and they leave feeling fulfilled and just like their heart is so full from spending time with other people.

Susan: That’s absolutely true. And you know, I don’t know why, but sewers are really, really nice. And I don’t know, I don’t know maybe some psychologist could do this personality profile, but I always say if I did seminars with, I don’t know, young bank executives, I don’t know, maybe it’d be a snake pit, but sewers are really lovely, lovely people. So, so I think that’s part of what makes the whole thing, you know, a really marvellous experience.

Helen: And when you do workshops where people get to bring any kind of project they want to work on, how does that work for you interacting with every student and making sure you’re, you’re teaching them all, or are you just, sort of, doing one-on-one time and going around to each person, making sure that they’re making progress?

Susan: Um, it’s probably both. I mean, there are certain, certain techniques that apply to pretty much every project, you know, how to join an underlining to a fashion fabric, but then we get into specifics, and I think what’s so nice about the classes is that you may not be doing a boned bodice, but you can eavesdrop on the person who is doing a boned bodice, right? So you, kind of, get to get a bird’s-eye view of other projects as well.

I think it makes people feel a little less held up to other people. So let’s say you were all working on the same thing. Well, then you’d think, oh, she’s further along on her shirt than I am. She’s doing her cuffs. I’m still working on my whatever. So there’s none of that, right? You know, you’re each, kind of, going down your own path because you know, sewers, we all know different things, gosh, don’t get me to fit your pants. No, do not. You know, when I teach, I think, I think learning puts you in a vulnerable position because you’re, you’re there to learn which means you’re admitting you don’t know something, and I think that’s a hard place to be.

So I tend to be gentle with my students and realise that that’s a part of it. You know, you’re learning something. So let me, let me, let you learn it in your own way. So yeah, there’s a lot of hands-on, individual approach because, and you guys know this, everybody learns in a different way, right? This way I can personalise, you know, some people, you, kind of, need to tell them every step of the way, some people are, kind of, happy on their own. You just have to kind of check in on them. Some people are happy, but they need a lot of supervision, you know, being on their own. Um, so it’s always a very different approach. And I love the fact that I can personalise that with my students. I really like that.

Caroline: And what is the class size for your couture school classes?

Susan: Um, kind of, depends, 12, 13, something like that.

Helen: And you also have online classes, as well, for our listeners who may not be able to get to you in person.

Susan: I do. And that’s why, um, yeah, I’ve got, uh, we have a couple online, and we’ll be putting more and more of those online, but what we also have, and this is I think a really good way to learn, um, there’s the sewing club, which I started, oh gosh, I think about a year ago, partly because, like you said, not everybody can come to a class and it was, kind of, a way I thought, if I can recreate this wonderful atmosphere that my students have in the class of being with their sewing friends, the atmosphere you have, you know, in your classes, the atmosphere that I think develops, I thought, wouldn’t it be great if we could develop that online?

So that’s, kind of, what the club is and in the club, there’s a lot of, there’s not only people sending me pictures and saying, how can I get this to fit better? And everybody chimes in, or I’m taking a trip to Amsterdam, what are the sewing fabric stores, or what’s a good book about this or that, or, oh, check out this video. There’s a lot of online video content on that, which is sort of exclusive to that site, and let’s face it. Video is a good way to learn. I mean, yes, I would like to have you hands-on with me, that’s the best, but you know, we, we learn by video a lot these days.

Helen: It’s a nice way to get to know an instructor a bit, too. You watch some of their videos and figure out if they’re a good fit for you too, right?

Susan: Yeah, they, kind of, get to see what you’re really like.

Caroline: So if any of our listeners want to join your sewing club, how can they go about doing that?

Susan: Oh, I think you just go to SusanKhalje.com.

Caroline: Perfect. So one of the questions that comes to mind for me is just that you’ve been teaching for so many years, and you’ve dedicated a lot of your career to this, and I wonder what is the most rewarding part of teaching for you? What keeps you coming back? What made you want to really make this into your life’s work?

Susan: Interesting. I think that I find it continually interesting because, I well, part of it is the students, you know, cause they’re so wonderful, and I get a lot of energy and inspiration from them, but I think it’s the endless applications of this couture business, this couture set of techniques, I should say, this couture field, this couture universe, you know, it can just be applied so endlessly that I think that’s what, I think that’s what fascinates me. Just seeing the, the endless iterations of it. There’s that. Yeah. And I think, I think also, gosh, any teacher would tell you that it’s, oh, it’s a joy seeing people gather, inherit, inhabit, gain new knowledge. I mean, that’s the best, you know, when you see that light bulb go off in somebody’s, somebody’s eyes, somebody’s head and you realise, oh wow. They can do things they didn’t do before. I mean, that’s, that’s a special privilege, I think, when you’re able to do that for someone.

Helen: Yeah. I imagine you have a lot of those moments in your class because your students probably have sewing skills that they’ve learned throughout the years, but then when they take it to a couture place and they’re learning different approaches to things, there’s all sorts of light bulbs going off. I’m sure.

Susan: Oh yeah. It’s great. I mean, I get a lot of, my students are good. They really are. A lot of them are good, and I love that I can, I can just make them better.

Caroline: Yeah, it is so exciting the way that you talk about couture sewing. I think a lot of our listeners are going to be excited to give it a try and even just incorporate some of these techniques into their sewing practice on a regular basis. I love how you talk about it as the possibilities are endless, there aren’t limitations with patterns. You can, you can, you can make a couture garment from really any pattern. So I really, really love your approach to this. And I hope, uh, I hope this episode inspires our listeners to go check out some of your work and follow you and maybe take one of your classes someday.

Susan: Well, that would be wonderful. And my, thanks to you all for adding this, this dimension to the sewing world, you know, in, in keeping things going in your way, too, because we all have to, I mean, you know, our numbers are diminishing sadly. We know that. And, um, I think we just all have to do what we can to, to try to, to build them because it’s, you know, sewing’s the best. It’s lovely. It’s, it’s just a wonderful skill. It’s a wonderful world in which, you know, to create and explore. So I think anything that we can do to further that is a good thing. So my thanks to you for doing this.

Caroline: Aw, thank you. Well, we completely agree with you. That’s, we’re making it our mission to spread the sewing love and, and bring as many people into the sewing world as possible because it is such a wonderful craft.

Susan: Well, it is, it is a wonderful craft, and it takes dedication on the part of the learner because you have to be involved with it to a degree. You’ve got to have a degree of commitment and skill and time invested in this until you can wear something that you’ve made, I think, so, maybe letting people know that yeah, you got to, kind of, you got to, kind of, invest a bit in this, you know, you’ve got to, kind of, get into it and then, then you get these fantastic results. So worth it.

Caroline: So worth it. Susan, I hope you know that you are an inspiration for us and for a lot of our listeners. So it’s truly been an honour chatting with you today. Can you tell our listeners where they can find you online? Absolutely. Just go to www.SusanKhalje.com, and you’ll find everything there.

Caroline: Perfect. Well, it was such a pleasure chatting with you. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Oh, gosh, I can’t thank you enough. Huge thanks for asking me to, to be a part of this. It was my honour.

Helen: Bye.

Caroline: Bye.

Susan: Bye bye.

Caroline: That’s it for this Love to Sew Favourite. We’ll be back in March with our new season. You can find me Caroline at BlackbirdFabrics.com and Helen at HelensClosetPatterns.com.

Helen: We’re recording in beautiful British Columbia, Canada, and you can get in touch with us and get links for everything we talked about in this episode at LoveToSewPodcast.com. Just search for the episode title.

Caroline: And, of course, if you want to join our Patreon fam, now is a great time to start. For just $5 USD per month, you’ll get access to our monthly bonus episode. For $10 USD per month, you’ll get a 15% discount code for Blackbird Fabrics and Helen’s Closet plus a bonus mini-sode. Go to patreon.com/LoveToSew, for more info.

Helen: Thanks to our amazing podcast team, and thank you all so much for listening. We will talk to you soon.

Caroline: Bye.

Helen: Buh-bye.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download | Embed